Pingouin Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Hi guys, After about 9 mouths and 1360km of riding my trusty Gotway MCM4 V2 HT (high torque) version and also 2 weeks on the (deceased) F528, I was starting to want a little more speed, a little more power, the MCM4 is a great overall wheel, reliable, agile, endurant (680Wh version), but my friends all faster wheels, and I was slowing them down, the MCM4 has a max real speed of 22kph (tilt back), so I have been riding it mostly between 19-21km/h with a range of 45 to 60km. I had the chance to get a KS18A 680Wh, but I weight only 60kg and I am not very tall, I found this wheel hard to steer, plus very slow to respond maybe because I wasn't putting enough weight on it, also it only had about 35-40km range, however I could get 28-30kph real speed ! So I sold it again, and started looking for another wheel. I had 3 in mind, the Gotway Msuper3 (that I had the chance to test, a beast !), the Rockwheel GT16 (very promising fast wheel) and the Gotway ACM. I also thought of the KS16S, but I didn't know when it was going to come out and I am not very patient. After thinking for several days, and with your help, I finally chose the Gotway ACMs 1300Wh, and here are my thoughts : When it first came, I though it would be heavy as hell (19.7kg), but I find it easier to lift than the KS18A, I think it might be due to my arme being a little more upwards when lifting the KS18. One of the screws wasn't tightened enough, but nevermind. I charged it (took about 8 hours...), it is very long to charge imo. It smelled good, but I wanted to test it, so my first ride was during the night, after putting the tilt back at 35kph & closing first & second alarm. I didn't push it though as it was the first charge and I barely saw anything on the road. Nex day, I've done 40km at low speeds on a mountain road with very steep climbs, it got it's first scratch due to riding too close to a rock (but no falling), but it was rock solid all the trip and I could feel the power of the wheel. At the end of the journey, and with 40% battery left, I pushed it to see it's max app speed, I was able to get it to 45kph but didn't feel safe at all because I was getting so much wind in my face, but no 80% beep !! For the next ride I've installed a bike odometer to mesure precisely the speed, but I've put the tiltback at 42kph to be safe, the weird thing is that the app does show a false speed (between 2 and 4kph more than real speed) but the tilt back seems to be at real speed, because I've hit 41kph on odometer and no tilt back. So far I have done 170km on it in only a few days !!! It is agile but not as agile as the mcm4, it takes some time to slow down and get to speed, but the power is always present, the wheel is very stable at speed, I think the highest safest speed on this wheel is 30kph, i've pushed it further, but I won't be riding faster than 30kph unless I need to double someone, I feel like these +8kph was exactly what I was missing before. I am well aware of the dangers of falling at theses speeds, the mcm4 shut down on me at 32kph real speed, luckily I fell on the grass with no damage, this ACM will not shut down on me by keeping it under the 40kph, it's impossible in theory because with my weight even at 45kph I couldn't get it to beep ! It does shut down at 50kph due to overspeed, that is why I wouldn't put the tiltback any further than 45kph. As for the range, I've done 61km max on one trip, and the gotway app shows 40%, so with the 25kph average speed, that's awsome and plenty enough. Here is a pic, showing that even with 59km in (about 40% battery) with very high front wind (25-60kph) in can still easily go up to +30kph and maintain with no beeping ! Overall I am very happy with my new wheel, I'll probably keep my mcm4 for some shorter trips as it is easier to carry around or maybe trying to learn some tricks with it. The ACM is fast, safe (if not going faster than 40kph) and powerful, I can't say for the reliability but I hope it'll last a very long time as I will be putting some thounsands of km in it ! Compared to the Msuper3, it is more responsive, but a little less robust, and I little less stable at speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Nice impressions... and crazy speeds! 45km/h!!! Just make sure that you don't kiss the asphalt when there's a slight bump, incline or other obstacle (even just a less smooth surface) - it might not take much to add 20% to an 80% load and then you're above 100. Interesting to see how 60kg weight allows you to go that fast (and far!!! It's like monster range for other people!), I wonder how that would work with a 70 or 80 or 90 kg person. You definitely have a great safety margin for normal speeds! I agree with your safe speed opinion: up to 30 km/h is very pleasant and fine, above that one starts feeling less safe (I did try that only very little). Can you tell anything about the torque difference between the ACM and the MCM4 HT, is there a difference on hills? How does the difference manifest? Which one is better for what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 Thanks ! I always do speed tests and try pushing the machine to it's limits (in reasonable ways I mean not trying to kill myself) so that afterwards, I know where the "safe zone" is, and when I need to pay more attention. The gotway monster I think is too big for me, but I would certainly be able to ride it, but it would be slow to respond, however I can only imagine the range I would get with the 2400Wh version ! (I expect a good 120km @ 25kph, because I should get 75-80km with the ACM) 30kph is plenty, and that is only on a road or a bicycle lane with few people, I'm not crazy and I don't want people to be afraid and do bad press to us. There is an exeption, today when riding with the wind, I went up to 40kph and I had almost no wind in my face, so it feels alot safer because it doesn't make you cry (wind in the eyes), but I didn't keep that speed, in fact I didn't notice that I was at 40kph until I looked down at the odometer !! I immediatly decelerated because I don't want to ride too fast, the ACM is quite slow to decelerate compared to what I'm used to. I can tell that there is a difference in how the power is delivered, I wouldn't say the ACM has elss torque, I think it's slower to respond due to the size of the wheel plus the added weight, maybe I am not pushing it enough..I would say that the mcm4 gets to 20kph a little faster thant the ACM but I'm not 100% sure, but it feels more responsive and agile for sure ! I can't tell a big difference in the moutains, both were able to climb very stiff climbs, in fact for me the limit is the front of the unicycle touching the ground due to the fact it's leaning too much forward !! Both are very good climbers (the mcm4 HT was meant for this I think, the ACM has just so much power..) The mcm4 is definitely better for commuting, if you need to put it in a car, in a train, in a bus, go watch a movie. If you want to do some tricks, it feels more responsive, and it has enough range, and enough speed for most people I guess. The ACM is better for high speed cruising, going from A to B, during night time (due to it's light), and for long weekend trips. The charging time is ridiculous though so if you run out of juice youre pretty much stuck where you are... Hope I answered your questions, I have one for you : what EUC do you have currently ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abinder3 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Interesting that you found the KS18 to be hard to turn. I have a V8 and just recently purchased a KS18 from @Jason McNeil from ewheels. The first ride, to me at least, it seemed easier for me to initiate a turn on the KS18 just by leaning into the turn. (But then again, that may come from my natural reaction to initiating a turn by leaning from riding street motorcycles.) It will take me a while to get use to making sharper turns on it like the V8 though. Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 Hi, Well I have ridden the V8 just once, and I found if very hard to turn compared to my mcm4 or even the F528 & KS16B, I think it might because of the shape of the wheel, it might be because I am not very tall. I did like the fact that I could sit on the KS18, very pleasant and comfortable, but I think I might have looked a little ridiculous to pedestrians. Strange thing is that it seemed like I could steer the KS18 easier by sitting on it rather than standing on the pedals ! I think everyone has a different feeling on each wheel, so don't take my word for it ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 14 hours ago, Pingouin said: what EUC do you have currently ? ACM 1300Wh Bought it specifically with mountains in mind so thanks a lot for your comments regarding torque! I believe with bigger tires and heavier wheels you just have to lean into it more (Marty said that about his monster) so the ACM might be able to accelerate like the MCM4 if you push it more, might need some time getting used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 I just took out the MCM4, it has a major advantage in cities, it is more stable at very low speeds "3-6kph" while the ACM is hard to maintain straight at these speeds, but I can definitely feel more the bumps and road imperfections with this "14", that is due to wheel size not torque. I would say the ACM is more suited for moutains due to it's larger size wheel (but then the msuper might be better than ACM), mcm4 can go offreoad but alot of stuff get's stuck between the case and the wheel, I feel like lower diameter wheel = more torque but the ACM has 1500W motor vs 800W mcm motor, but the ACM motor os meant to spin at higher speeds, so I can say they are both almost equivalant, but I would give reactivity during climbs to the mcm4 ht (not the mcm4 hs version which has not that much torque at all). Are you considering a mcm4 ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 No, this is just curiosity. Still wondering what the best torque option is (as in max incline, for brute forcing mountains) between all wheels - but I have no second thoughts (except I would not mind the 1600Wh ACM naturally ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 I thing the best torque option is the Rockwheel GR14 ^^ How much do you weight ? Do you get the same range as I do with yout ACM ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 80kg +- Not really done any range tests, but yesterday's ride was flat, 70% pavement and 30% crap, a bit windy, and I used 35% (100 to 65) for ca. 28km (didn't go too fast, just a relaxing ride). I'm pretty sure you get a better range with 60 kgs. I estimate mine to be around 65km (in the flat) to go from 100% to 20% battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 I do get better range for sure, I might try a range test cruising at 15kph to see, it might give me 100km but it's also more than 6h on the wheel ^^ For those who want to get +100km at good speeds and who are at "standard" weight (between 70 & 90kg), there is no other option than the monster 2400Wh, I though about getting the ACM 1600Wh, but I think for 99% of my trips, I do not need the extra 300Wh, so it wasn't worth the extra money for me. Anything above 50km is a good range, but the 1300Wh over the 820Wh was also considering the voltage increase, and the added security (as it can go at the same speed in safer conditions). The next generation of wheel will be getting +2000Wh batteries on "18" wheels I think, in the early days of EUC 20km was considered a good range, today 40km seems to be a good range as people want more, so we migh see ranges going to monstruous levels in the future. Something to consider is if the power of the motors keeps going up, the range will decrease, because higher power motors are heavier and seem to be less efficient, the Msuper2 has more range in 680Wh than the Msuper3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Pingouin said: I do get better range for sure, I might try a range test cruising at 15kph to see, it might give me 100km but it's also more than 6h on the wheel ^^ For those who want to get +100km at good speeds and who are at "standard" weight (between 70 & 90kg), there is no other option than the monster 2400Wh, I though about getting the ACM 1600Wh, but I think for 99% of my trips, I do not need the extra 300Wh, so it wasn't worth the extra money for me. Anything above 50km is a good range, but the 1300Wh over the 820Wh was also considering the voltage increase, and the added security (as it can go at the same speed in safer conditions). The next generation of wheel will be getting +2000Wh batteries on "18" wheels I think, in the early days of EUC 20km was considered a good range, today 40km seems to be a good range as people want more, so we migh see ranges going to monstruous levels in the future. Something to consider is if the power of the motors keeps going up, the range will decrease, because higher power motors are heavier and seem to be less efficient, the Msuper2 has more range in 680Wh than the Msuper3. At a riding weight of ~80kg I get ~70km on my 1300wh ACM. That's with a lot of aggressive riding too. My Monster is giving me 110+km, and that's with a lot of 35kph - 40kph riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 21 hours ago, Pingouin said: <snip> Overall I am very happy with my new wheel, I'll probably keep my mcm4 for some shorter trips as it is easier to carry around or maybe trying to learn some tricks with it. The ACM is fast, safe (if not going faster than 40kph) and powerful, I can't say for the reliability but I hope it'll last a very long time as I will be putting some thounsands of km in it ! Compared to the Msuper3, it is more responsive, but a little less robust, and I little less stable at speeds. Nice report and I'm glad that you're enjoying your new toy I do find that my natural riding speed on this ACM is ~35kph. Of course the riding speed is very personal, but that feels like a safe speed for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: No, this is just curiosity. Still wondering what the best torque option is (as in max incline, for brute forcing mountains) between all wheels - but I have no second thoughts (except I would not mind the 1600Wh ACM naturally ) The 84v ACM can climb anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 Marty what is your average speed ? You get 70km by using 100% of the battery ? or is it still above 20% ? The ACM does feel safe at 35kph if no headwind, but it's just my brain who sais to me "be careful if the wheel shuts off..." ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 43 minutes ago, Pingouin said: Marty what is your average speed ? You get 70km by using 100% of the battery ? or is it still above 20% ? The ACM does feel safe at 35kph if no headwind, but it's just my brain who sais to me "be careful if the wheel shuts off..." ^^ Average speed is so hard to determine. If I'm cruising down sidewalks and such I'll probably be doing 22+kph. But if I'm riding on long stretches of paved path (which I have a lot of around me) then I find myself going 35kph. On my older ACM my comfortable speed was 32kph. When I got 70km I was at about 10% under load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 How much juice do you have after 70km ? For average speed, I have my bike odometer it's quite helpful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, Pingouin said: How much juice do you have after 70km ? For average speed, I have my bike odometer it's quite helpful 10% under load I use my Pebble watch and Wheellog app to monitor my speed real time. And I have a separate Garmin 60CS to map my rides and provide any pertinent statistics that I'm interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 Thanks ! I'm happy with the range I'm getting right now, maybe the range will slightly increase because of the charge cycles, but because every trip is different it's difficult to be accurate ^^ I'll do the "push" test this weekend and keep you guys updated of the solder melts ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 3 hours ago, Marty Backe said: At a riding weight of ~80kg I get ~70km on my 1300wh ACM. That's with a lot of aggressive riding too. My Monster is giving me 110+km, and that's with a lot of 35kph - 40kph riding. Did you get heavier or is this a typo? Weren't you around 70? Because if you're 80, this is an unexpected range bonus of my ACM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 48 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: Did you get heavier or is this a typo? Weren't you around 70? Because if you're 80, this is an unexpected range bonus of my ACM I blame it on my imperial to metric conversions For some reason I was writing ~70. In my native language, my riding weight is a consistent 170 pounds, which I now realize is closer to 80kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: Did you get heavier or is this a typo? Weren't you around 70? @Marty Backe How flattering riders are tracking your statistics. Any other stats you can share with the members? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 37 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: @Marty Backe How flattering riders are tracking your statistics. Any other stats you can share with the members? I'm afraid that I may be giving out too much information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I always reduced my estimates because "Marty is lighter, so I must get less mileage than him" - turns out we're same weight! ACM just got better for free!70km is my new "optimal conditions 100% to 20% for an 80kg rider" estimate for the 1300Wh. I have a range test tour planned (for the summer) which is right about 65km so that makes a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted February 25, 2017 Author Share Posted February 25, 2017 Temperatures are also to take into consideration, it might reduce the range from 10 % to 15%, in california the weather is much warmer than here in europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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