King Song 2017 plans

[Chris Westland]

4 hours ago, Mono said:

What do you mean by better? 

Meaningful question, I agree.  Better in the sense that since these cost a lot more (more power, more parts, etc) do they really offer improved functionality (faster, nimbler, etc.) or are they just different (at a price)

[OliverH]

On 16.12.2016 at 11:42 PM, trya said:

@EcoDrift posted on Russian forum known King Song  plans for the beginning of 2017

KS-16S: 840wh/1200w, max speed: 35km/h, mid January
KS-18A with 2000w motor, max speed: 60-70km/h, February 
KS-14D with 680wh and 840wh, April
Powerbank for EUC charging:  March 
KS-18 new design: May

Yeah, unbreakable stupidness. I said it as Gotway launched the MSuperV3/s and the Monster: Wrong direction and dangerous. If this advertised speeds are true they're the first with dead customers. What about power torque curve with this broad rpm range? Higher voltage than ever before?

This devices could mean an import stop for all EUCs after the first crash with heavy injuries/ death. Banning in countries which tolerate EUCs by today. 

[FreeRide]

I think it depends on perspective. I think the V3 did make ridding off-road safer, and for many it seems it made riding a lot more enjoyable too.  So I have to say the V3 was the right product for the right time.  Maybe they could have restricted the top speed, but then you get in the endless debate about personal responsibility.  It seems they allowed the rider to control many of the speed based safety features and it's clear it's not a good wheel for new riders to ride on the sidewalks in crowds.  Although it would be cool if there there was a easy ride profile selection so one could easily select day-time-stroll if there were going to be in more crowded spaces and it would automatically adjust to a set of suitable ride parameters to help prevent serious accidents should a rider get bumped or even completely knocked off the wheel while it was upright.  I can see in the future things like Battery-Saver mode, Performance Mode, Beginner-Mode, etc.  Some software already has some of these. They should be easy to select and some of them should be fully programmable and others less so.  I don't believe you can legislate everything, there is already too many stupid rules.  Education is the key, and we don't need to have everyone strip before boarding a plane.   

[Smoother]

10 hours ago, FreeRide said:

Although it would be cool if there there was a easy ride profile selection so one could easily select day-time-stroll if there were going to be in more crowded spaces and it would automatically adjust to a set of suitable ride parameters to help prevent serious accidents should a rider get bumped or even completely knocked off the wheel while it was upright.  I can see in the future things like Battery-Saver mode, Performance Mode, Beginner-Mode, etc.  Some software already has some of these. They should be easy to select and some of them should be fully programmable and others less so.  I don't believe you can legislate everything, there is already too many stupid rules.  Education is the key, and we don't need to have everyone strip before boarding a plane.   

That's exactly what we need, the ability to customise all the parameters (within safe min and max settings).  I'd love to be able to damp down my violent tilt back, or change how much tilt I get from the pedals in various situations.  One size does NOT fit all.  And all this needs is a better written app ( he says, knowing absolutely nothing about the control board programming) . Well said. @FreeRide ?

[Flash]

On ‎2016‎-‎12‎-‎16 at 11:42 PM, trya said:

@EcoDrift posted on Russian forum known King Song  plans for the beginning of 2017

KS-16S: 840wh/1200w, max speed: 35km/h, mid January
KS-18A with 2000w motor, max speed: 60-70km/h, February 
KS-14D with 680wh and 840wh, April
Powerbank for EUC charging:  March 
KS-18 new design: May

wow 

[Flash]

On ‎2016‎-‎12‎-‎18 at 11:25 PM, Chris Westland said:

Meaningful question, I agree.  Better in the sense that since these cost a lot more (more power, more parts, etc) do they really offer improved functionality (faster, nimbler, etc.) or are they just different (at a price)

I think it's a big win ks-18A with much better safety at speeds up to 40 kmh , maybe setting tilt at 50 and first beep at 40 kmh   , if I buy one then I will use 40 kmh as max speed and go safe on the road  , pls don't forget skateboard grip pedals and mud guard 

[Donafello]

I myself must admit that having a wheel with a top end of 70km would be insane for anything more then people that want to race these units. On my 1640wh V3 67v the final beep comes on at about 42km on a full charge. And that is to fast for me to feel comfortable on. I have come to realize that anything over 35km is just not something i would want to do so their is no reason to get anyhting that can go that quick. I guess from a safety point of view having a unit that can go that fast would be better for a rider that likes to ride at lets say only 40km then a unit that top's out at 45km and your pushing it to 40km. So I must admit I need to see some more info on it but I still will prob pass because I know myself and if I can ride 70km safely I am deff going to try to get that high once in a while .

[Cloud]

On the subject of high speed capable wheels ...there is definitely a lot left to the personal responsibility / freedom of choice/ one's good judgement, but for one to safely exercise his responsibilty / freedom / judgement there needs to be sufficient equipment reliability and safe environment. Neighter exists at this point in the euc world and this is why it is not enough to leave it to the rider to take his own risks at this point - there needs to be speed limitations built in until such time that the rider can know exactly what kind of risk to expect as a result of the choices he makes. 

For example, I can take responsibility what what happens if i choose to accelerate to 60kmh and the euc no longer has torque to balance, but i have to know the the wheel is reliable enough to not cut out under me at this speed for any other unrelated reason. I also need to have been informed by the manufacturer what exactly my torque limits are per my weight and riding conditions. I also need to have safe riding routes with noone in front or behind me should this accident occurs. This is not in place as of yet.

in understanding these risks which are currently still outside of the rider's control is where the manufacturer's responsibility should come in and the associated limitations.

Furthermore, even in the perfect world where the rider has full control over the calculated risks he takes, it may still make sense to put in limitations to avoid the situations where the risks gets too high whether thru the stupidity of the rider himself or those around him.

[Mono]

In particular when it comes to the speed ranges above 25km/h, we have to talk about the risks for innocent bystanders. It should be the first question asked, as they don't have a choice while the driver does.

[Flash]

It's simple , we all know the limitations and what happens if we go at full speed , I'm grateful they build a faster stronger wheel and the only sane solution is to limitthespeed to 35-40 kmh and use the extra strengt for safety , finally we maybe have a wheel that can handle every situation  hardbraking , potholes , speed , hard acceleration ,  what's the point to make a stronger wheel if people use this improvement to go faster and reach engine cut off again but now in even higher speed , this is an important decision to make for the inventors or serious accidents will happen , block the speed to max 40 and no unlock codes , if its to slow then buy a motorcycle

Hi tech faceplant

[Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer"]

On 12/18/2016 at 2:47 PM, OliverH said:

posted on Russian forum known King Song  plans for the beginning of 2017

I don't know about this ??? Maybe Putin and his band of hackers are toying with us EUC enthusiasts like he did with them there those DEMOCRATS!  Has anybody checked Wikileaks?

[Chris Westland]

On 12/16/2016 at 4:42 PM, trya said:

@EcoDrift posted on Russian forum known King Song  plans for the beginning of 2017

KS-18A with 2000w motor, max speed: 60-70km/h, February 
 

 

[abinder3]

On 12/16/2016 at 3:58 PM, Marty Backe said:

The 18A looks interesting although I would only consider it if the wheel had a short profile along the lines of the MSuper. I really don't like how the current 18" wheel feels between the legs - too tall.

I'm all for more and more speed. My car can go much faster than 100 mph yet I rarely exceed 75. To my mind the faster the wheel can go the more margin I have in normal riding conditions. Bring on the speed KingSong.

The only thing is though, I believe that here in California a few years back, electric bicycles couldn't go faster than 20mph before they were required to have a license on them.  If the California 'lawmakers' get 'wind' of EUCs going faster than 20mph on a regular basis, we may find that they will start putting the 'brakes' on the riding of EUCs here in California without having an actual license on them and then requiring EUC riders to wear approved motorcycle style helmets.  Is that few extra mph worth that regulation?

(I also believe that electric 'bicycle' manufacturers several years ago evaded the requirement of having to have a motor vehicle license on the electric 'bicycles' by being sure it had pedals on it.  Our EUCs don't have pedals on them, so going faster than 20mph may just cause that type of regulations to hit the EUC riders here in California.)

Just a thought though.

[Frode]

These wheels will probably not be sold in my country since it is illegal to drive an EUC faster than 20 km/h.

[Mono]

33 minutes ago, Frode said:

These wheels will probably not be sold in my country since it is illegal to drive an EUC faster than 20 km/h.

Do you think this will actually be enforced and how exactly?

[OliverH]

16 hours ago, jrkline said:

I don't know about this ??? Maybe Putin and his band of hackers are toying with us EUC enthusiasts like he did with them there those DEMOCRATS!  Has anybody checked Wikileaks?

The sentence you quoted was posted by EcoDrift.

[Flash]

14 hours ago, Frode said:

These wheels will probably not be sold in my country since it is illegal to drive an EUC faster than 20 km/h.

Yes they will , a Norwegian already sell KingSong 18A in Norway , it´s up to you how fast you want to go , they are locked from the factory to 20 kmh , in sweden legal speed is 25 kmh , you can go 200-300 kmh with a car , they are still legal  

[Frode]

14 hours ago, Mono said:

Do you think this will actually be enforced and how exactly?

I am only a layman in legal questions, but I don't think it will be enforced. It is the driver's full responsibility to ensure that the vehicle is legal and working and that he is able to run it properly. It means that it might be legal to sell, but still not necessarily legal to drive. Theoretically I believe you might for example loose your drivers license (if you have one) and get economical claims if speed can be said to be partly involved in the outcome of an accident. Don't sue me if I am wrong

[Cerbera]

15 hours ago, Frode said:

These wheels will probably not be sold in my country since it is illegal to drive an EUC faster than 20 km/h.

Do you guys not have cars that go faster than your national speed limit ? I suspect it will be the same for EUCs unless there is some horrible high-profile accident that makes the police need to be seen to be 'dealing with it'...

[Frode]

22 minutes ago, Flash said:

you can go 200-300 kmh with a car , they are still legal

Yes, but the law in Norway specifically says that a self balancing vehicle must have a "konstruktiv hastighet" (design speed) of maximum 20 km/h to be regarded as a "motorredskap" (motorized utility?) . There is no such speed limit for cars. "Motorredskap" do not require registering and license plate. They have technical requirements, but there are no type approval requirements. I do believe a speed lock is good enough, provided that it is in use and that it cannot be turned on and off in an easy way while using the EUC. I think you might have an app on your mobile phone, but not one which is unlocked (if you carry it with you).

This is how I have understood/interpreted it.

[Mono]

20 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Do you guys not have cars that go faster than your national speed limit ? I suspect it will be the same for EUCs unless there is some horrible high-profile accident that makes the police need to be seen to be 'dealing with it'...

There are two distinct ways to deal with speed limitation. Cars and motorbikes require a drivers licence and a tachometer. Electric bicycles, mopeds and (soon) EUCs require a constructive design which limits the (powered) speed. I think this distinction is pretty universally found all over the world.

[Flash]

you should check what rules you have for an electric bicycle , atleast the same should apply for an euc in Norway

[lizardmech]

On 12/20/2016 at 5:02 PM, jrkline said:

I don't know about this ??? Maybe Putin and his band of hackers are toying with us EUC enthusiasts like he did with them there those DEMOCRATS!  Has anybody checked Wikileaks?

Maybe people can try the Putin hacker defense in countries with speed restrictions "when I started my journey this unicycle was a simple 350w model but then russians hacked it and added 1kw, they can't keep getting away with this!"

[lizardmech]

34 minutes ago, Mono said:

There are two distinct ways to deal with speed limitation. Cars and motorbikes require a drivers licence and a tachometer. Electric bicycles, mopeds and (soon) EUCs require a constructive design which limits the (powered) speed. I think this distinction is pretty universally found all over the world.

The speed restrictions make no sense, I can easily ride a unpowered bike above 40kmh but somehow riding an ebike above 25kmh is dangerous and must be banned. To me it mostly looks like protectionism as cheap lightweight EVs threaten automakers.

[Cerbera]

13 minutes ago, lizardmech said:

The speed restrictions make no sense, I can easily ride a unpowered bike above 40kmh but somehow riding an ebike above 25kmh is dangerous and must be banned. To me it mostly looks like protectionism as cheap lightweight EVs threaten automakers.

It's laziness I think. Far easier to globally ban something than actually putting any effort into investigating ways to make it safe and legal. These people need (constant) reminding that it is their job to safely enable the things that humans want to do, not to tell them they just can't do it.

I can't help but feel that where the law is so obviously unconsidered, what choice do we have but to do it anyway, and try and prove, day by day, ideally with video evidence, that EUCing is no more risky than cycling, and that we, as riders, are considerate to pedestrians and traffic, safety conscious, well protected, well informed, and on the whole, know what we are doing...