trya Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 @EcoDrift posted on Russian forum known King Song plans for the beginning of 2017 KS-16S: 840wh/1200w, max speed: 35km/h, mid January KS-18A with 2000w motor, max speed: 60-70km/h, February KS-14D with 680wh and 840wh, April Powerbank for EUC charging: March KS-18 new design: May Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Thank you, very interestening and gives one a sense of what to expect in terms of planning one's next euc purchase. 17 minutes ago, trya said: KS-16S: 840wh/1200w, max speed: 35km/h, mid June Very good to see a conservative speed limit. Need to confirm the axles cracking/ bending issue has been resolved 19 minutes ago, trya said: KS-18A с 2000w motor, max speed: 60-70km/h, February Suicidal. Gotway/Kingsong performance race can get ridicuous sometimes. At the present stage of incorporated safeties and the amount of risk involved, i should hope that the 60-70kmh is a potentail max speed, it would be great to see the actual max speed software - limited with tiltback at around 40-45kmh max. 24 minutes ago, trya said: KS-14D with 680wh and 840wh, Riders used to 14C with large battery will be appeased. Not sure this one will be very popular as it gets heavy for a small size, not optimal for short trips, but nice to see Kingsong is covering all bases. Need to confirm the axle cracking problem has been resolved in the new motor 26 minutes ago, trya said: KS-18 new design: May Smart move and long overdue. Ive always believed Kingsong can listen and learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 The 18A looks interesting although I would only consider it if the wheel had a short profile along the lines of the MSuper. I really don't like how the current 18" wheel feels between the legs - too tall. I'm all for more and more speed. My car can go much faster than 100 mph yet I rarely exceed 75. To my mind the faster the wheel can go the more margin I have in normal riding conditions. Bring on the speed KingSong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trya Posted December 17, 2016 Author Share Posted December 17, 2016 1 hour ago, Cloud said: 2 hours ago, trya said: KS-18A с 2000w motor, max speed: 60-70km/h, February Suicidal. Gotway/Kingsong performance race can get ridicuous sometimes. this is most likely a cut-off speed, the actual riding max speed should be at most 45-50, they think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 5 hours ago, Marty Backe said: I'm all for more and more speed. My car can go much faster than 100 mph yet I rarely exceed 75. To my mind the faster the wheel can go the more margin I have in normal riding conditions. Bring on the speed KingSong. Id say bring on the margin; control the speed. After a tear in my miniscus, bursitis on both knees, and countless cuts and bruises, my outlook on speed is changing. Aparently, i am not undestructible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomad Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 I thought the KS16S was scheduled for January, is it a typo because the rest of the list is in chronological order and it says "mid" june, that's pretty specific compared to the others only stating months? For the 18" 2000W motor I think more power is needed for 60 km/h anyway, but it would be great for max 40-45 km/h! 16" diameter is better for 20-30 km/h, 18" for 30-40 km/h. 40-50 km/h range would be better with 20" and 50-60 km/h needs probably at least 22". Without suspension 60 km/h is too fast for an 18" tire even with 10 kW power... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Without suspension wheel 18" Is not too small for 60 km/h and even more than 90 kmh is ok ! ( This is a lot of the smaller wheel and without suspension ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomad Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Haha that's a funny machine! But a bike has a wheel base i.e. the distance between the wheels and also handles to hold onto and a seat too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 I'm going to go out on a limb & say I think KS need to rethink their developmental priorities. If the goal is to break the land speed record riding through a shopping center on one Wheel, great, but if they want a successful long-term business, then I think they should be focusing App development, improving waterproofing, serviceability & reliability. I don't believe there is the remotest chance of any regulatory body approving a >40kph Wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trya Posted December 17, 2016 Author Share Posted December 17, 2016 3 hours ago, nomad said: thought the KS16S was scheduled for January, is it a typo because the rest of the list is in chronological order and it says "mid" june, that's pretty specific compared to the others only stating months? correct, thanks! @EcoDriftconfirmed the typo, I changed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Koffler Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 2 hours ago, Jason McNeil said: I'm going to go out on a limb & say I think KS need to rethink their developmental priorities. If the goal is to break the land speed record riding through a shopping center on one Wheel, great, but if they want a successful long-term business, then I think they should be focusing App development, improving waterproofing, serviceability & reliability. I don't believe there is the remotest chance of any regulatory body approving a >40kph Wheel. Agreed. And, outside of that approval...how many people would WANT to actually ride a wheel that goes that fast? There are lots of REALLY fast things that very few people think are safe enough to actually try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKJ Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Sorry, but not, to chime in here! Get on your bike if you have one, if not maybe borrow, have a way to see speed, get going 40 kph, 24 mph, now imagine falling and the road rash and, or broken bones that might happen! I am all for the crazy guys who want to go fast, hopefully WELL protected, BUT, for the general market I feel high speed EUC will be not at all good for the pastime in general! I STRONGLY think that 25 kph is plenty fast for general use, maybe even to fast? UKJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomad Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 To me this lineup from KS looks logical and offers three diverse devices! But then you want a lower compact Msuper 3 type shell on KS18 instead of the tall one that goes up to the knees for much better stability and has integrated seat.. 840Wh big heavy battery on KS14D instead of compact and lightweight.. 25 km/h top speed on KS18 instead of 40 km/h which is still bicycle speed.. Are you guys sure? Because to me it seems it would result in the whole lineup being pretty much the same, then they could just offer the KS16 as the only option, as it will cover all those above mentioned needs, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 1 hour ago, UKJ said: I STRONGLY think that 25 kph is plenty fast for general use, maybe even to fast? That is exactly how I see it as well. As illustrated in a previous thread (link below), 20km/h is like jumping from 1.6m height whereas 25km/h is like jumping from 2.5m height, and it's usually not jumping feet forward in case of an EUC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 42 minutes ago, nomad said: then they could just offer the KS16 as the only option, as it will cover all those above mentioned needs, no? Possibly, which means they could put much more development effort into a single eventually much more awesome wheel. I am happy that I don't need to make their business decisions though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 4 hours ago, UKJ said: <snip> I STRONGLY think that 25 kph is plenty fast for general use, maybe even to fast? UKJ 25 kph is certainly too slow for me. I'm not into extreme speeds, but I regularly ride 25 - 30 kph. If 25 was the top end I'd rarely ride the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Westland Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 On 12/16/2016 at 4:42 PM, trya said: @EcoDrift posted on Russian forum known King Song plans for the beginning of 2017 KS-16S: 840wh/1200w, max speed: 35km/h, mid January KS-18A with 2000w motor, max speed: 60-70km/h, February KS-14D with 680wh and 840wh, April Powerbank for EUC charging: March KS-18 new design: May Correct me if my math is wrong, but 70km/h appears seriously suicidal overkill to me … 70km/h = 63504(m/s)^2 (wrong!) ... this should have been [19.45m/s]^2 （sorry） So for a 70kg rider+EUC the Kinetic Energy = .5*70kg*20^2(m/s)^2 = 14KJoules From https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/bone-resilience-depends-o/ (quoting research from Nature Materials) “researchers found that it took only 375 Joules of energy to crack the bone when they applied the force within five degrees of the orientation of the collagen fibers. But the necessary force increased exponentially when they applied it at anything over 50 degrees away from that orientation, up to a whopping 9,920 Joules when they applied a nearly perpendicular force.” I figure a fall at 70m/h should be able to break at least ~14/9.92 = >1 bones ... The adult body has 206 bones, so with luck you should be able to break some bones in your body in one fell swoop ... Just my $0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HermanTheGerman Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 6 hours ago, UKJ said: I STRONGLY think that 25 kph is plenty fast for general use, maybe even to fast? I'm riding my current KS16 often between 25 and 30 km/h on a long cruise, and I don't view me as a racer. But I will still replace my KS16 for the new KS16S next year, for 2 reasons: the stronger motor with more torque, and the larger battery (my current is the 640 Wh version, and I confess, if I would already have the 820 Wh version, I would not upgrade). But the KS16S is a great opportunity for me to combine the larger battery with the other advantages. I'm quite sure I'll drive the new wheel also with 35 km/h sometimes, if it is as reliable as the current KS16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUCMania Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 1 hour ago, Chris Westland said: Correct me if my math is wrong, but 70kg appears seriously suicidal overkill to me … 70km/h = 63504(m/s)^2 70 km/hr = 70*1000 m/3600 s = 19.45m/s. So the kinetic energy for a 70kg guy is = 1/2*mv^2 < 0.5*70*20^2 = 14000 J. It is not energy, rather it is the pressure breaks a bone. For example, you can scratch a bone for a long time so that the total energy spent is large. But, because the energy is applied over a long duration, the bone will be fine. But, if you use a cleaver with very sharp edge, then it does not take much energy to break the bone because the sharp edge make the pressure huge even though you only used a little force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Westland Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 14 hours ago, EUCMania said: 70 km/hr = 70*1000 m/3600 s = 19.45m/s. So the kinetic energy for a 70kg guy is = 1/2*mv^2 < 0.5*70*20^2 = 14000 J. It is not energy, rather it is the pressure breaks a bone. For example, you can scratch a bone for a long time so that the total energy spent is large. But, because the energy is applied over a long duration, the bone will be fine. But, if you use a cleaver with very sharp edge, then it does not take much energy to break the bone because the sharp edge make the pressure huge even though you only used a little force. You're right (I asked for corrections, didn't I?) ... The Nature Materials article is claiming it is the energy + direction that breaks bones ... I'm assuming they are thinking of a sharp jolt that delivers all of the energy to the bone in one punch (which from my experience is how it happens when you fall off your EUC) So your (corrected) energy calculations suggest there will be just enough impact if you fall off at 70m/h to break (best case) 14/9.92 ~ 1.5 bones or (worst case) 14/.375 ~ 37 bones I propose this as a new metric for visualizing the "risk" at EUC speed: Equivalent Bones Fractured (EBF) EBF (70kg rider) ~ .0003*(speed in km/h)^2 (best case) EBF (70kg rider) ~ .0072*(speed in km/h)^2 (worst case - Max Pain) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomad Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 When some laws and regulations are in place, maybe already next year in Europe with PLEV I think, it will require a registration plate and a drivers licence for any faster wheels. If you don't want that then just get a slower wheel as usual.. I'm thinking about getting the 16S myself so the top speed of the KS18 is none of my business, unless I get that wheel then it is my business but none of yours hah! I just wonder if any of the current manufacturers will be able to comply with the safety standards for making legal faster wheels, or will they only sell low speed models to Europe while other manufacturers take over the high end? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footspeed#Limits_of_speed https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moped#Individual_countries_regions BTW how many bones can I break with a Lightning LS-218 ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HermanTheGerman Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 On the other hand, it would be fun to overtake a Porsche on the highway with an EUC at 130 mph (~200 km/h), waving friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Would be an interesting question how far one could realistically spec out something like the Ryno in principle. So far it goes 10 miles per hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Westland Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 3 hours ago, Mono said: Would be an interesting question how far one could realistically spec out something like the Ryno in principle. So far it goes 10 miles per hour. I notice a lot of clone/wannabes for the Ryno on Aliexpress, etc. I haven't ridden one, but I'm wondering if the sitting position really is better than standing (the Ryno is certainly less portable than an EUC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 45 minutes ago, Chris Westland said: I notice a lot of clone/wannabes for the Ryno on Aliexpress, etc. I haven't ridden one, but I'm wondering if the sitting position really is better than standing (the Ryno is certainly less portable than an EUC) What do you mean by better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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