Msuper3, wheel for a starter?

[Bram]

Hi Guys,

I've enjoyed reading up on this forum and thought I'd jump in to enjoy the fun. I'm currently considering purchasing my first EUC and am interested in your thoughts.

• Reason: Riding a EUC looks like so much fun and just plain awesome!
• Main purpose: Daily commute to the trainstation (2x 3km), but the wheel should be able to get me home (27km) if the trains stop working.

First I was considering buying the inmotion v8, but after reading some posts that the design with hard plastic as leg 'padding' might make longer rides uncomfortable and it might be  abit sluggish for heavier riders I started looking into different wheels. 

That's how I got to the Gotway (pun intended). I keep reading about how smooth the ride is and in combination with the option to go much faster than the V8 does sound appealing to me.

Some extra considerations: I live in the Netherlands so hills are virtually non existent. I will be driving the EUC through rainy weather (which we get plenty over here). I weigh 90kg and this will be my first EUC.

I'm really curious to hear your thoughts on which wheel would be better for a starter like me.

Bram

[Keith]

The first consideration if you are mainly going to commute with it has got to be (IMHO) size and weight. I often take my KS-14C on the train and occasionally bus and I am not at all sure I would want to use anything either larger or much heavier. It also needs a good trolley handle if there are parts of your commute that you cannot ride, for example shopping malls or station concourses. 

As far as range is concerned, it looks like virtually all wheels have their ranges measured with a 10 year old child on them, so range is considerably less when a real western adult rides them. You need to look at the real world figures people are claiming against different wheels, for example My 340Wh wheel gets me around 14km comfortably and maybe another 5km in limp mode and I weigh around 75kg. (Although my early Kingsong does have its low voltage cut off set way too high - newer ones should go further) The Inmotions will perform better than most (in Wh terms) as they use a higher voltage which gives better efficiency, but you will be looking at a minimum of 480Wh I would think to get 27km comfortably, more if you are a lot heavier than me.

Gotways have the range and power to go faster, as do the Kingsongs but Gotways (in particular) can be dangerous if the rider does not understand the limitations of those wheels at speed. Indeed anything much faster than 25km/h really needs motorcycle levels of protection.

If you are not very heavy, both size and weight are an issue when carrying it on public transport and you aren't intending lots of difficult terrain, then 14" wheels and perhaps the Inmotion V5F+ might be the first to look carefully at?

[Bram]

12 minutes ago, Keith said:

The first consideration if you are mainly going to commute with it has got to be (IMHO) size and weight. I often take my KS-14C on the train and occasionally bus and I am not at all sure I would want to use anything either larger or much heavier. It also needs a good trolley handle if there are parts of your commute that you cannot ride, for example shopping malls or station concourses. 

As far as range is concerned, it looks like virtually all wheels have their ranges measured with a 10 year old child on them, so range is considerably less when a real western adult rides them. You need to look at the real world figures people are claiming against different wheels, for example My 340Wh wheel gets me around 14km comfortably and maybe another 5km in limp mode and I weigh around 75kg. (Although my early Kingsong does have its low voltage cut off set way too high - newer ones should go further) The Inmotions will perform better than most (in Wh terms) as they use a higher voltage which gives better efficiency, but you will be looking at a minimum of 480Wh I would think to get 27km comfortably, more if you are a lot heavier than me.

Gotways have the range and power to go faster, as do the Kingsongs but Gotways (in particular) can be dangerous if the rider does not understand the limitations of those wheels at speed. Indeed anything much faster than 25km/h really needs motorcycle levels of protection.

If you are not very heavy, both size and weight are an issue when carrying it on public transport and you aren't intending lots of difficult terrain, then 14" wheels and perhaps the Inmotion V5F+ might be the first to look carefully at?

Thanks for the reply and thoughts Keith. I'm a 90kg guy so with some additional workstuff total load will go up to 95 or 100kg on a bad day, all the more reason to loose some weight ;). I will look into the V5F+ as you recommended, but I think that unit might not be powerful enough to carry a heavyweight like me at 25 km/h cruising speed... 

[Cerbera]

I would say the MS3 is a bit ambitious as a starter wheel, not great in heavy rain, and not responsive enough to deal with heavy pedestrian traffic unless you really know what you are doing. It's weight makes it not very forgiving of newbie mistakes either. You are going to fall off it, many times, while you are learning, and that's a lot of power and weight to suddenly find yourself not in control of... you will also find one of the few weaknesses about that wheel is the strength of casing, which really doesn't do too well in crashes.

Not only that, but if your commute involves any stairs at all, you are going to have to carry it, and believe me, 20Kg feels astonishingly heavy if you have to lift it for longer than 10 seconds  I would recommend something small, responsive and light, like a Ninebot 14 incher or similar...

 

[Bram]

Thanks I actually looked into the V5F+ and I think I'll go for that. It's light, has good range and speed and probably the better wheel for me. Just waiting for it to be restocked at wheelgo.com  

[nomad]

Welcome! Riding EUCs is amazing but the manufacturers specifications are far from reality...

Personally I wouldn't recommend the V5F+ over 80kg, I think it won't be so strong for you.. You need more power at the bare minimum 800W preferably 1200W or more. I have this wheel since July I'm about 70kg and if I put on a 10kg backpack it starts to feel a bit weak. I would call it a comfortable 20 km/h cruising speed +/-3 km/h (tiltback is agressive from 23-25 km/h, alarm goes off at 25 km/h). I get about 30km range down to 25% battery level, I don't ride below that if I can help it. I can go 35-40km max but then I ride carefully the last 5-10km. In lower temperatures lithium batteries will give you less range, it drops off pretty fast below 5°C. Also as the batteries age some capacity will be gradually lost over time. The range for your weight will be less and it's winter soon.. It's a great high quality wheel but I think for your weight it's lacking power and range.

If you can hold out a couple of months the Kingsong KS16S is coming out it should be great with 1200W. If you can't wait the current KS16 is a good option too with a good internal trolley handle solution. And price should be lower as the new model will take over soon. Gotway ACM is another option with more power and speed but trolley is not great.. Inmotion V8 is a very nice wheel but range for your weight is lacking and I think it's a little too tall (can't fit under the legs on the train). There's also the new KS14D but again the range will be lacking and from what I saw the trolley on it seems a bit too short, it seems designed for the shorter chinese and kids if they don't improve on that part. That's my shortlist of the more portable wheels...

For all EUC specifications don't count on getting much more than about 50% range and 80% speed from the stated values.

Of course for a first wheel you can get something cheaper.. Riding these things might not be your cup of tea. But pretty much everyone who goes for it loves it! However the high end models have a steep price tag. Wheelgo is a great european reseller highly recommended by the way also Speedyfeet very popular. Most riders who get a cheap wheel then upgrade after a couple of months already, so in my opinion get something good from the start and have a nicer experience.

Whatever you ride stay around and wear protective gear!

[Jose Otal]

A getway 820 acm or Super v3 can not go wrong, over long distances you need a comfortable cruising speed (30-33 kh) and do not force the wheel to the maximum, gotway runs at 45 kh but it is very dangerous but 30kh And its weight of 90kl I think it's perfect, kingson16 seems to be another good option but I do not know it well, watch videos on yotube and you'll see what uses it gives people, according to the wheel model

[Donafello]

I personally learned to ride on a Msuper V2.  That was my first unit and the first time I ever set foot on a unicycle.  And I'm actually glad I learned on it because I feel I can ride anything now.  Where as going from a small wheel to a Msuper I'm sure there will be some learning curve regardless.  

[Cloud]

@Bram, my suggestion is, since this will be your first wheel to go for a 16" since its a more universal size and still not a very large size in case you need to carry it or tuck it under a subway seat . It might also be cheaper then msuperv3, depending on which wheel you get. May be a good idea to get a more universal size wheel first before you try it and decide how you like it and maybe then go for a more specialized wheel

like @nomad said, being 90kg, v5f may not be the ideal wheel for you because of the smaller battery size and the 500w motor. For example when i tried to brake sharp on v5f+ it gave out under me. You may not be able to do 26km on it, or you will discharge the battery completely which is not so good. You should get a wheel 800w plus powerful motor due to your weight.

msuper3 is a very comfortable wheel, i love riding mine,  and there is nothing wrong with having it as a first wheel, if your budget allows it, yet it is not the most popular wheel size and its a bit bulky. V8 is not sluggish at all for heavier riders - i am 100kg and i was very agile on it. The pedals were ok but of course the msuper pedals are larger and more comfortable. Also the type of terrain you are riding, and the surrounding will lend themselves to one or the anothertype of wheels

in any case, nothing wrong with gettimg msuper, but you might also want to consider inmotion v8, kingsong ks16, or gotway ACM. Ks16 looks pretty good and has big enough pedals. Its kinda heavy and will ride similar to msuper but is still lighter and will have a more streamlined shape. Acm is wuite reliable , i dont like the way it looks but its in the eye of the beholder.

[ImpulseZeo9201]

I also bought my first wheel not to long ago, it was a V3 Gotway. Its a great starter wheel as you will not have to upgrade for a long time.

I found the learning to be painful at the beginning, but once you know how to balance yourself on it youre good to go. I do like the ability to go off road and the wheel is good for big guys. I'm a 105Kg rider and at 2m tall I found it easily propelled me forward and up the steepest hills.

For a commuter its great, I drove it to work where I could  deploy the handle and roll it around.

Even my little wife, who's only 1,45m/ 5'3" learned how to ride it and loved it after much apprehension.

I say you Got long Way to go with Gotway (pun intended)

[stevenvo]

18 hours ago, Bram said:

Thanks I actually looked into the V5F+ and I think I'll go for that. It's light, has good range and speed and probably the better wheel for me. Just waiting for it to be restocked at wheelgo.com  

I have the same needs as yours, except I do not need to take the train. So I commute from home to work and back daily at the distance of 1.5 miles (~2.4 km) each way. V5F+ is my first wheel, the reason I chose this wheel is that it has 
(a) the sufficient energy to go beyond my needs, 
(b) it's nimble enough, I'm sure you can carry it for 50-100 steps, and it stands nicely under my legs
(c) I like the design, it's futuristic (my opinion only)
(d) the handle bar is great, it is just right, you need 1% effort to drive the wheel with the handle bar, on one hand, compare to a bicycle (I don't own other wheel so I don't know how easy it is)
(e) it has the power - I weigh 75kg and with my back bag ~15kg and a carried shopping bag of 5kg it runs like nothing. 

Now is the cons: 
- steep learning curve: the pedals are slightly high, so I guess it took me more time to learn. 
- its responsiveness: is good and bad, you don't have a super comfortable riding experience like the mSuper3 but then you got the sensitive control.

[serfy]

8 hours ago, Ombre said:

The problem is that you will have to mount the wheel when you get your cue and then start rolling. For a second or two you'll be a little off balance, which will make it impossible to hold the camera steady during that time.  Therefore the director will have to give you a cue in advance and allow time and space for you to get going. 

I'd say a Segway makes more sense from that standpoint, at least on paved surfaces at low speeds.

If you did go EUC, yes, you'd want a big one.  250 lbs calls for a powerful motor. 

Chasing BMX bikes off road may work better on an EUC than a Segway because of the EUC's higher speed and maneuverability.  But you'll never catch up with a fast bike unless you get extraordinarily skillful and have a really powerful/fast wheel. At that point a motorcycle with two riders (one driver, one camera operator) probably would work better.

EUCs can make great camera platforms for special situations, but their envelope of suitability is pretty limited. You should regard it as one of many possible mobile platforms, not an all-in-one solution.

 

I just figured out how to quote the desired message.

I'm sure a couple seconds of getting my balance is acceptable, and I picture rolling back and forth and an assistant handing me the camera to make it work. Someone mentioned a dual wheeled InMotion makes it easier to balance, but does that limit the maneuverability?

For paved roads and slower speeds I have roller blades, which are actually quite effective and can provide quite maneuverable.

I'm a dirt biker from way back and have a large dual sport that works well.

So the big question is still: Where do I start?  Get one to try/learn it?  Or go for the mac-daddy right away?

[Carlos E Rodriguez]

I think the perfect wheel is :

- Less than 26LBS  or 12KG. Easy to carry if needed.

- 14 x 2.5 inch wheel for absorbing bumps and size is small enough. most wheel are 2.125.

- Has build in trolley.

- Battery 640 WH. for range and safety reserve.

- 800W to 1000 w nominal motor.

- Price $1,000 or less.

- Max Speed of 25 MPH.

 

Sorry to say that no one makes this yet.

The closest is the MCM4 HS. but does not have the trolley and the tire is 2.125 which at full pressure is very bumpy. If you put 40PSI is feels pretty good. The easier to carry cute wheels will have more engineering in them and will cost a lot more and they keep the speed down to 12MPH or so. I believe if you need agility and to carry around then a heavy wheel or large wheel is too much.

or 

https://www.imscv.com/en/inmotion/v8 is a well design machine also.

 

That being said the ACM and mSuper-V3 are fantastic speed machines and I would love to have as a second wheel but not as a portable tag along wheel.

[Carlos E Rodriguez]

 

 I would suggest the https://www.imscv.com/en/inmotion/v8 since it has good power, has trolley, has water resistance rating of IP55. 84V battery. 16 inch wheel but compact.

[Carlos E Rodriguez]

@bram. 

 

[Carlos E Rodriguez]

 

[steve454]

14 minutes ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said:

@bram. 

 

@Carlos E Rodriguez that must be a new video from Inmotion.  Have you seen the rider before?  He won the first EUC video competition started by @rehab1.  Very skilled rider,@hirsute.

[Carlos E Rodriguez]

yeah.he is amazing!

[serfy]

1 hour ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said:

 

 I would suggest the https://www.imscv.com/en/inmotion/v8 since it has good power, has trolley, has water resistance rating of IP55. 84V battery. 16 inch wheel but compact.

This does seem to be a very good option.  Are the footpedals large enough for my size 13 feet and it will support my 230 lbs, plus a camera? I'm assuming this guy is like 5'7" and 140lbs. Like many sports smaller, lighter, lower center of gravity is beneficial.

[Carlos E Rodriguez]

You are above average.  I do not know. The weak link will be the pedal assembly.

Its like trying to fit you inside a mini cooper.  

Just because its a car doe snot mean you fit.  So you need a SUB size Unicycle.

I guess an 18 inch model or bigger with large motor and large battery. But then it becomes less portable. Its always a tradeoff. 

Drive a Ferrari or an Escalade.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

4 hours ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said:

 

  No lights on, no reflectors, no knee pads or gloves/wrist guards, rolling through red lights and traffic in the middle of the road in New York City?   I liked "Death Wish" with Charles Bronson, but com'on... at least turn some LEDs on?  

[serfy]

18 hours ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said:

You are above average.  I do not know. The weak link will be the pedal assembly.

Its like trying to fit you inside a mini cooper.  

Just because its a car doe snot mean you fit.  So you need a SUB size Unicycle.

I guess an 18 inch model or bigger with large motor and large battery. But then it becomes less portable. Its always a tradeoff. 

Drive a Ferrari or an Escalade.

Plus I like the idea of being able to go off road.

Is the Kingsong Artwheel 18" big enough? I like the fact that you can put a seat on it. 22" seems to be getting giant and expensive. I'm a big guy, but not THAT big.

I wish there was a place I could look at them. I live in LA and can't find one retailer.

[Mono]

19 hours ago, serfy said:

This does seem to be a very good option.  Are the footpedals large enough for my size 13 feet and it will support my 230 lbs, plus a camera?

There have been quite a few reports about broken axles and broken pedals from different manufacturers, but none of them related to InMotion, IIRC. The pedals size is above average with a length of 212mm. For a size 13 they should be ideally about 20mm-or-so longer, but I am not sure which wheel would have that anyway.

19 hours ago, serfy said:

I'm assuming this guy is like 5'7" and 140lbs.

I think so too 

[LanghamP]

Let's see; I'm around 215 pounds and I've carried people in the 100-120 pound range on the Inmotion V5. So, 340 pounds? Maybe doing that is a terrible idea. I've had no problems doing this, except the tire feels a bit squishy and is harder to turn. Wheel seems to go up hills with utter indifference though.

I haven't tried any such thing on my Gotway MSuper 1600; I'm not confident enough to try such tricks on it because it feels like a fragile beast. 50 pounds of mass being dropped is probably going to cause damage to it.

[serfy]

21 hours ago, LanghamP said:

Let's see; I'm around 215 pounds and I've carried people in the 100-120 pound range on the Inmotion V5. So, 340 pounds? Maybe doing that is a terrible idea. I've had no problems doing this, except the tire feels a bit squishy and is harder to turn. Wheel seems to go up hills with utter indifference though.

I haven't tried any such thing on my Gotway MSuper 1600; I'm not confident enough to try such tricks on it because it feels like a fragile beast. 50 pounds of mass being dropped is probably going to cause damage to it.

You've done that on the V5? That's amazing!?  I'd rather not have to spend buckets of money right away, but I would like a larger wheel for going over rougher terrain. I'll look more at the V5 & V8.

50 lbs does seem to be a detriment on the physical side.