Henrik Olsen Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 The biggest problem is testing. They do not have a clue about the behavior of the wheel with a heavy rider like 100kg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vik's Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 21 minutes ago, Donafello said: I will give a rep to anyone that can post a gif of that. It was priceless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vik's Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Just now, Henrik Olsen said: The biggest problem is testing. They do not have a clue about the behavior of the wheel with a heavy rider like 100kg. "They don't have a clue about behavior of the wheel with" a rider heavier than 50kg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 @Vik's you got my rep for that tasty nugget. question: how do you knock Mike Tyson onto his back? Answer: give him a hover board.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpulseZeo9201 Posted November 16, 2016 Author Share Posted November 16, 2016 14 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: I pondered that very same question about which direction does a rider fall when their wheel cuts out going downhill while braking to maintain a constant speed. I think the general concensus was that the rider falls forwards due to forward momentum. I would have thought that if the wheel stops functioning, it might let loose and stop braking forces so the rider would fall backwards as the wheel speeds up. Maybe @ImpulseZeo9201 can tell us in which direction was his fall. Again thank you for the nice wishes. I do agree that if you put your weight on your heels going down a hill to break, in the event of a cutout, you will fall back, or at least have your heels, feet touch the ground. As my other foot held on to the EUC for a bit longer my left leg went forward. As to how long I was riding before the accident. I charged it overnight, drove about 1-2 miles on a straight, went up and down a number of steep hills, (more up than down). and on mile 4 or so my machine gave in. I'd guess that I used up perhaps 10-20%battery seeing my size and the requirements demanded for my GW. I was also considering magnet slippage 30 sec. before the accident. As I know I'm heavy and how the momentum is broken. I was going down the steepest hill here in SF however before with no issues. Being on an iPhone I don't know if I have a logger like that, but Id be happy to know if I could help protect others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 25 minutes ago, ImpulseZeo9201 said: I'd guess that I used up perhaps 10-20%battery seeing my size and the requirements demanded for my GW. So that would seem to rule out over-voltage cutout, wouldn't it ? If you drove 1 or 2 miles on a straight first your battery pack should have been out of the danger zone for over-voltage by the time you got to the hills, no ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpulseZeo9201 Posted November 16, 2016 Author Share Posted November 16, 2016 Id think so. Being that I was driving up some considerable hills too, maybe that would mean that I used up more juice than I regenerated. I'm also not aware how the regenerative braking works in terms of physics. The more you break the more you juice up? I honestly thought I would deplete the battery requiring it to break, which I think is just power put out to slow down the magnets rather than the magnets putting power back in the battery. I'm no physicist but Id think that's how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 24 minutes ago, ImpulseZeo9201 said: Id think so. Being that I was driving up some considerable hills too, maybe that would mean that I used up more juice than I regenerated. I'm also not aware how the regenerative braking works in terms of physics. The more you break the more you juice up? I honestly thought I would deplete the battery requiring it to break, which I think is just power put out to slow down the magnets rather than the magnets putting power back in the battery. I can't eloquently explain it myself, but power back to the battery from regenerative braking is there, and it is not insignificant (albeit, not a 1 for 1). For every downhill, you are recouping power, unless you are straight gunning it downhill without braking at all. Some riders on the forum attest to longer range on their EUCs when hills are involved in their routes, all due to their wheel's regenerative braking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 1 minute ago, houseofjob said: I can't eloquently explain it myself, but power back to the battery from regenerative braking is there, and it is not insignificant (albeit, not a 1 for 1). For every downhill, you are recouping power, unless you are straight gunning it downhill without braking at all. Some riders on the forum attest to longer range on their EUCs when hills are involved in their routes, all due to their wheel's regenerative braking. or it is just so simple , its a defective motherboard and needs to be changed to a new one... katching bullseye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpulseZeo9201 Posted November 16, 2016 Author Share Posted November 16, 2016 Yeah, I still like the idea of going down a hill backwards best. If you fall at least its on your hands. Even though Id like to see someone pull that off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 27 minutes ago, ImpulseZeo9201 said: Yeah, I still like the idea of going down a hill backwards best. If you fall at least its on your hands. Even though Id like to see someone pull that off. You'd need some sort of impressive mirror arrangement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16bitSprite Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 @ImpulseZeo9201 So sorry to hear about your crash. Thank you so much for sharing this information with us. I hope that we can use it to help prevent further crashes with other riders. It is really concerning to hear that that the failure was on such a slight slope. Did you receive any alarms at all before your fall? Can you confirm that you have the 84v version. I know that the 67v was not designed for us heavier westerners. If it is the 67v that could be another contributor to the cut out. I wish you a speedy recovery and hope that you are up and about again soon. all the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpulseZeo9201 Posted November 16, 2016 Author Share Posted November 16, 2016 Hi 16bitSprite, Thank you. I do have the 84v version and there was no alarms. It just stopped and tumbled. The alarms came later the typical, ones that occur when they fall on the side. I also had the internal components checked before purchasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16bitSprite Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 2 minutes ago, ImpulseZeo9201 said: Hi 16bitSprite, Thank you. I do have the 84v version and there was no alarms. It just stopped and tumbled. The alarms came later the typical, ones that occur when they fall on the side. I also had the internal components checked before purchasing. I'm all out of possible causes then. This is scary news. I really hope someone can come up with the most likely cause so that we can all learn what behavior to avoid. As it stands, it sounds like you were doing the all the right things. Sending my best wishes to you and your wheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpulseZeo9201 Posted November 16, 2016 Author Share Posted November 16, 2016 I don't think you need to be scared as long as you don't really push it to the limits. I am heavy and these hills are steep. If you go over moderate slopes and decent speeds, wear protective gear and aren't a dummy. You should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 15 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Can we get some volunteers to shut down their wheels as they ride downhill in different situations? I will volunteerrrrrr...........................YOU to perform this maneuver! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donafello Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 4 hours ago, 16bitSprite said: @ImpulseZeo9201 So sorry to hear about your crash. Thank you so much for sharing this information with us. I hope that we can use it to help prevent further crashes with other riders. It is really concerning to hear that that the failure was on such a slight slope. Did you receive any alarms at all before your fall? Can you confirm that you have the 84v version. I know that the 67v was not designed for us heavier westerners. If it is the 67v that could be another contributor to the cut out. I wish you a speedy recovery and hope that you are up and about again soon. all the best. But the 67v is what they always have used. My V2 is 67v and I never had a problem. And all the 820 and 680 V3's are 67V. The only difference is my 1640wh has more batteries but it is still the same 67V which is truthfully why I ordered it and not the 84v. I feel the 84v needs some more testing before I jump on one. So it seems that the 84v that was meant for us heavier riders might be an issue. I really wish we could know exactly what happened but unfortunately we will never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donafello Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 @ImpulseZeo9201 Who did you buy the unit from? And how long have you had it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpulseZeo9201 Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 I bought it from tec-toyz.com. The owner was very caring, adjusted air pressure right on the spot, checked it wires etc. and even gave me a few beginner lessons. Its my first EUC and I had it for about a week and a half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donafello Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 4 hours ago, ImpulseZeo9201 said: I bought it from tec-toyz.com. The owner was very caring, adjusted air pressure right on the spot, checked it wires etc. and even gave me a few beginner lessons. Its my first EUC and I had it for about a week and a half. Ok. I was not implying the seller did anything wrong. I've heard nothing but good things about tec toys. I was just curious if maybe this is a 84v issue or maybe just a V3 issue. I don't know if you answered this but was the unit able to be powered on after the accident? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vik's Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 18 hours ago, Smoother said: @Vik's you got my rep for that tasty nugget. question: how do you knock Mike Tyson onto his back? Answer: give him a hover board.? Too bad "hover"-crap got no ears to bite off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 On 15.11.2016 at 2:24 AM, ImpulseZeo9201 said: I'm just recovering from a major fall. I broke my leg and ankle in three places, tore all my ligaments off my foot, going down a somewhat steep hill in SF. Ouch.. Wish you a fast and full recovery! On 15.11.2016 at 2:24 AM, ImpulseZeo9201 said: I am 240 lbs/ 105kg and I assume the thing couldn't handle me. I was on a GW V3 and my motor just cut out and there goes my leg.. I was not going fast a steady 6mph breaking on a maybe 10-12 degree slope when all of the sudden it cut out and yeah.. With ~130kg (your weight + V3 + clothing+...) going uphill a 12° (~20%) slope with ~9 km/h should need a power of ~730W. With some motor efficiency of 0,7 this would result in ~1kW needed power. As braking going down a hill needs the same power as keeping some speed going up a hill this ~1kW should be the same for both situations. Imho with this speed there is no regenerative braking - the generated motor voltage is too low to charge the battery, so the controller has to "actively" brake and use battery power for this. Also as @esajimho once posted a link?, that the h-bridges working as inverter while charging double the voltage this would still be not enough... And normal controller operation with around 1kW (~12A with the 67,2V Version) should be no real prob for nowadays EUC's... But if the speed was a bit higher, maybe the slope a bit steeper this could go to needed powers that the wheel cannot sustain for longer times... (15 km/h for a 15° slope would consume ~2kW). And at this speeds regenerative braking could already be feasable. Also till now we did not really find out in this forum (or did we and i missed it?) how the h-bridges are operated in detail for regenerative breaking - if the mosfets are still "actively switched" so they only dissipate power by the low rds-on, or the currents flow through the inverse body diode and have to dissipate much more power by the diodes forward voltage? So overheating can and will happen much earlier than in "normal" operation? Maybe @electric_vehicle_lovercan bring some light to this topic, once he implemented, "measured" and debugged regenerative breaking with his open source firmware? 14 hours ago, ImpulseZeo9201 said: I was also considering magnet slippage 30 sec. before the accident. As I know I'm heavy and how the momentum is broken. I was going down the steepest hill here in SF however before with no issues. Being on an iPhone I don't know if I have a logger like that, but Id be happy to know if I could help protect others. According to ?tina/lina? from GW no magnet slippage should occur with GW EUCs - this phenomenon should be induced by the overcurrent protection at ~120A cutting off for a very short time... But imho the noticable effect for us riders should be about the same? Maybe this is/was a sign, that your EUC was already "heated up" by your driving before the decline, so just a little bit more power dissipation was enough for the overtemp protection to kick in? Logging with an iphone should work nicely for the GW V3 with @Paco Gorina's 9BMetrics (available in the app store...)? Just if you have the 84V Version it still shows Voltages just up to 67,2V, as the 67,2V and 84V Version send the same voltage values - so one has to/could introduce a multiplier? With the log much guessing could be saved - one could see if regenerative braking was in effect or not, one could see if the EUC overheated, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Eucist Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 On 11/16/2016 at 11:05 AM, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Maybe @ImpulseZeo9201 can tell us in which direction was his fall. @ImpulseZeo9201 I saw you quoted @Hunka Hunka Burning Love's post in your reply but I don't think you answered the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Eh, people tend to ignore my questions as my smilies tend to dazzle them too much. I wonder though whether there is a possibility that the fall in the OP's case could have been due to rider error and maybe not a fault of the wheel? For a new rider who has his first wheel for 1.5 wheels to tackle the steep hills of San Fran that's pretty ballsy. Add in some subconscious questions and borderline weight limits, could that possibly be a factor in the accident? Could the tire have lost traction on a slippery spot maybe? If anyone's interested we did talk briefly about failures going downhill a while back when I posed the question to the forum. There's some interesting replies in this thread if anyone's curious. I was trying to find that one video of that professional reviewer with the Madmax mask on who lost control of his EUC, and it hurtled down a long hill... I think Toby Stevens also had a video showing his wheel bouncing down a hill out of control... That's when I ran across this thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Just now, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Eh, people tend to ignore my questions as my smilies tend to dazzle them too much. I wonder though whether there is a possibility that the fall in the OP's case could have been due to rider error and maybe not a fault of the wheel? For a new rider who has his first wheel for 1.5 wheels to tackle the steep hills of San Fran that's pretty ballsy. Add in some subconscious questions and borderline weight limits, could that possibly be a factor in the accident? Could the tire have lost traction on a slippery spot maybe? I have to admit I did wonder about rider error when I saw 1 and a half weeks... but 6mph is a perfectly reasonable speed to be going to down a hill like that, so even if the riding was terrible (and I'm not saying it was !) we are still left with the problem of why the wheel shut off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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