KingSong KS 16S

[Blunzn]

over at the french forum (espritroue.fr) are "rumors" about a KS16 S model with 840 WH, 1200W Motor and 35 km/h.

some one got more info ?

[HermanTheGerman]

Wow, that sounds interesting !
 

[Philfree]

The information is from kingsong France, it's more than a rumor. 

The price will be approximatively the same as the ks 16 b 840. (1699 € in France).

[tinawong]

Yes, we will have a KS16S with 840wh battery, 1200w.  Top speed: 35km/h. After we released newest 14", we will work on it.  For this model, only 840wh battery available.  

 

So, current KS-16 model is still an ideal choice for those persue good performance-price ratio. 

[Addwyn]

2 hours ago, tinawong said:

Yes, we will have a KS16S with 840wh battery, 1200w.  Top speed: 35km/h.

Hi Tina,

Great News !

What will be its top speed when battery charge goes under 50% ?

[Cloud]

Thanks @tinawong this is great to hear.

will this model have 4 speakers? 2 speakers is not loud enough

also , will it have a usb port? USB port is very useful!

Also, a slightly harder riding response / riding mode would be great

thank you

[HermanTheGerman]

9 hours ago, tinawong said:

Yes, we will have a KS16S with 840wh battery, 1200w.  Top speed: 35km/h. After we released newest 14", we will work on it.  For this model, only 840wh battery available. 

Great, a black monster !

I'll buy one.

 

3 hours ago, Cloud said:

Thanks @tinawong this is great to hear.

will this model have 4 speakers? 2 speakers is not loud enough

also , will it have a usb port? USB port is very useful!

Also, a slightly harder riding response / riding mode would be great

thank you

As I can see, tastes are very different:

I would not need a speaker at all, and also no USB port (though I understand why one would like the latter).

But the third wish I could also sign.

 

[Cloud]

6 minutes ago, HermanTheGerman said:

As I can see, tastes are very different.

I would not need a speaker at all, and also no USB port (though I understand why one would like the latter).

But the third wish I could also sign.

Well , yeah, some people dont need speakers. But if they are gonna provide speakers they should be loud enough  we dont want things done half way  Usb port is great to charge the phone 

[HermanTheGerman]

13 hours ago, Cloud said:

Well , yeah, some people dont need speakers. But if they are gonna provide speakers they should be loud enough  we dont want things done half way  Usb port is great to charge the phone 

I understand the USB port wish, though I could live without it (another dangerous hole, where water can enter the wheel).

But I couldn't suppress a grin, because it's the very first time I heard someone describing the KS16 speakers as "not loud enough".

All the others asked until now how to turn them off, at least the "Hello Kingsong". 

[Cloud]

2 minutes ago, HermanTheGerman said:

I understand the USB port wish, though I could live without it (another dangerous hole, where water can enter the wheel).

But I couldn't suppress a grin, because it's the very first time I heard someone describing the KS16 speakers as "not load enough".

All the others asked until now how to turn them off, at least the "Hello Kingsong". 

Hello kingsong is annoying. I dont think peopke wanted to turn off the soeakers, they wanted to turn off voice notifications. When i say speakers i mean the music volume. They are definitely not loud enough. They are half the volume of ks14 because there are 4 speakers in ks14 or ks18 but only 2 in ks 16

[PriestHood]

I find it difficult to here the warning beeps at 28 & 30km/h. The wind-noise at those speeds, get in my ear. PLEASE make warning beeps Clearer & more ear piercingly loud. You can also consider speaker placement on Top, facing upwards at the cyclist. Others won't hear it. And, one can differentiate nearby noises.

This is VERY important safety.

Please.

[HEC]

8 hours ago, PriestHood said:

I find it difficult to here the warning beeps at 28 & 30km/h. The wind-noise at those speeds, get in my ear. PLEASE make warning beeps Clearer & more ear piercingly loud. You can also consider speaker placement on Top, facing upwards at the cyclist. Others won't hear it. And, one can differentiate nearby noises.

If you're talking about the "beeps" (with voice prompts turned off) those have nothing to do with the actual speakers. There is a separate piezo-electric beeper (used in RC models) mounted directly on controller board. You can replace it with a louder one or mount it in the top of the shell under small hole to increase the volume.

[JumpMaster]

14 hours ago, PriestHood said:

I find it difficult to here the warning beeps at 28 & 30km/h. The wind-noise at those speeds, get in my ear. PLEASE make warning beeps Clearer & more ear piercingly loud. You can also consider speaker placement on Top, facing upwards at the cyclist. Others won't hear it. And, one can differentiate nearby noises.

This is VERY important safety.

Please.

You can always use WheelLog and your phone will vibrate at predetermined speed.  You could also buy a Pebble Watch to use with the app and the watch will then vibrate.

[EricGhost]

Speakers on top are dangerous with rain.

Back toKS16S I see a 50% increase in power from KS16B and only a 16% in speed, does it means there will be more torque, is it a HT model? If so What will be the max current 50A or more?

[Cloud]

1 hour ago, EricGhost said:

Speakers on top are dangerous with rain.

Back toKS16S I see a 50% increase in power from KS16B and only a 16% in speed, does it means there will be more torque, is it a HT model? If so What will be the max current 50A or more?

I think the 50% increase in motor power does not warrant a 50% increase in speed, as it is not a linear function. Max Torque should anyway increase as the motor power increases

[tinawong]

On 2016/10/25 at 11:39 PM, Cloud said:

Thanks @tinawong this is great to hear.

will this model have 4 speakers? 2 speakers is not loud enough

also , will it have a usb port? USB port is very useful!

Also, a slightly harder riding response / riding mode would be great

thank you

Hi, unfortunately, it will be with 2 speakers. also, without USB port.  With new control board, we will improve riding experience, will offer your feedback to engineer team, thanks! 

[Cloud]

5 minutes ago, tinawong said:

Hi, unfortunately, it will be with 2 speakers. also, without USB port.  With new control board, we will improve riding experience, will offer your feedback to engineer team, thanks! 

Thanks a lot Tina. Quite a few people have noted on the insufficient volume level of ks16, so if you have a chance please see if the volume can be increased. If you dont have room for 4 speakers maybe you can make the 2 speakers more powerful.

 Thanks for listening to our feedback. I think kingsong listens to feedback better than any other euc company out there

[tinawong]

Thanks, we also got same feedback from other users about increasing big speakers, but due to the restrict of our current module, impossible for us to increase the speaker volumn, so....I am afraid we have to leave it as it is .. 

 

 

[EricGhost]

21 hours ago, Cloud said:

I think the 50% increase in motor power does not warrant a 50% increase in speed, as it is not a linear function. Max Torque should anyway increase as the motor power increases

Power=RPM x TORQUE, if Torque=constant then 1.5*rpmold x TorqueOld=1.5*PowerOld, if RPM is constant RPMOLD x 1.5*TorqueOld=1.5*PowerOld, if (35/30)*rpmOld x ???*TorqueOld=1.5*PowerOld then NewTorque=1.286*TorqueOld, where 1.286=1.5*30/35

that's math, there will be some non linearity but something must change anyhow

[nomad]

This KS16S could be a great fast compact all round wheel. KS14D looks good too but I already have a 14" wheel.

I hope the trolley is sturdy and high quality, especially as it doubles as the lifting handle. Other wheels have not so good quality on their trolley handles..

Is it smaller than Inmotion V8 ? Is it the same size as earlier KS16 ? What are the dimensions? I think it should to be small enough to put it under the thighs when sitting on the train. Up to 50cm high at the top of the handle might be ok with the rounded shape, anyone here bringing their KS16 on public transport?

What is the max speed without overload, no tiltback, no alarm? At which speeds are tilback and alarms activated? And how much of the range can be used before the top speed is lowered, due to low battery?

What is the tire width? The 16" IPS 191 Lhotz has a 2.5" tire which I'm hearing good things about. I had an Msuper v3 myself and can say that the wide tire thickness was nice to have although that was also 18". I ride my V5F+ almost daily since July which is very portable but it's only 14" and I have the old version which has a thin 1.95" tire. Ground is now full of wet leafs and winter is coming so more stability would be welcome!

I think nobody rides the wheel in the wrong direction, the head and tail lights do not need to switch when changing direction, riding for a bit backwards sure but 99% of the time it's useless. Keep it simple and use proper strong one color white front / red back lights. Superbright headlight mode would be great too, as on other vehicles where you can switch between half and full brightness. Using the wheel in the wrong direction will worsen tire traction. So my opinion the directionality feature can be removed and I don't think anyone will miss it.

How long are the pedals? And if too small, will bigger replacement pedals be sold separately? Also you could sell improved pedals that are extra grippy or have a wedge or upward bent form at the front too.

Does it have a cooling fan or does it use properly sized passive heatsinks?

How good is the water proofing for riding in wet condition, IP class?

Please start listing the real world practical speed and range specifications, set a good example, it will give respect if the product matches or surpasses expectation, instead of disappointing by coming up short. KS already is a well known brand, no point of trying to make it look better than it is, that eventually backfires. The specs should not be some unattainable range or riding on the edge of cutoff.. And we will wait longer rather than have a rushed product. That wins in the long run, my two cents!

[Cloud]

5 hours ago, nomad said:

 

 

Please start listing the real world practical speed and range specifications, set a good example, it will give respect if the product matches or surpasses expectation, instead of disappointing by coming up short. KS already is a well known brand, no point of trying to make it look better than it is, that eventually backfires. The specs should not be some unattainable range or riding on the edge of cutoff.. And we will wait longer rather than have a rushed product. That wins in the long run, my two cents!

Quite a lot of questions for kingsong  may take a little while to answer, but one thing i wanted to comment on was the real range specs. Its not so easy for one manufacturer to start piblishing "real" range specs derived by a different criteria. If all other manufacturers are plublishing inflated spec, then , through comoarison, the reader will disadvantage the one who published the real data , thinking that it was gathered by the same means as the others. Unfortunately manufacturers are sort of forced to continue using these numbers, unless there will be a way for the entire market to start using real numbers which wont happen.

[nomad]

15 hours ago, Cloud said:

Quite a lot of questions for kingsong  may take a little while to answer, but one thing i wanted to comment on was the real range specs. Its not so easy for one manufacturer to start piblishing "real" range specs derived by a different criteria. If all other manufacturers are plublishing inflated spec, then , through comoarison, the reader will disadvantage the one who published the real data , thinking that it was gathered by the same means as the others. Unfortunately manufacturers are sort of forced to continue using these numbers, unless there will be a way for the entire market to start using real numbers which wont happen.

Good point but then the resellers should take matters into their hands and correct it for all the products they sell, so they become comparable again or list both values. For example Msuper v3 820Wh:

Top cruising speed*: 35km/h (down to 25% battery level)

Speed claimed by manufacturer: 40km/h

Cruising range at 25km/h*: 50km

Cruising range at top speed*: 35km

Range claimed by manufacturer: 80km

*  Top cruising speed means the maximum speed without overload (alarm or tiltback).
* Range is measured on flat ground for a 70kg rider down to 25% battery charge. Hills, wind and weight will lower the range.

[HEC]

23 hours ago, nomad said:

Is it smaller than Inmotion V8 ? Is it the same size as earlier KS16 ? What are the dimensions? I think it should to be small enough to put it under the thighs when sitting on the train. Up to 50cm high at the top of the handle might be ok with the rounded shape, anyone here bringing their KS16 on public transport?

What is the max speed without overload, no tiltback, no alarm? At which speeds are tilback and alarms activated? And how much of the range can be used before the top speed is lowered, due to low battery?

See my V8 review where I comment about KS-16 vs. V8 size. This is a bit of a "wild guess" but I bet that KS-16S will be using majority of the same components / designs from current KS-16 wheels including shell, tire, cooled CB, trolley handle, pedals and so on so you can check on those for your answers. KS-16 is a bit shorter (though indeed wider) than V8 and fits perfectly under your legs when sitting in the train, metro or bus. Alarms on KS-16 are configurable (4 of them - 3 beeps and one tilt-back) which I highly miss now on V8.

In short - I don't expect any major "overhaul" of current KS-16 models - just updated motor and CB most likely.

[nomad]

5 hours ago, HEC said:

See my V8 review where I comment about KS-16 vs. V8 size. This is a bit of a "wild guess" but I bet that KS-16S will be using majority of the same components / designs from current KS-16 wheels including shell, tire, cooled CB, trolley handle, pedals and so on so you can check on those for your answers. KS-16 is a bit shorter (though indeed wider) than V8 and fits perfectly under your legs when sitting in the train, metro or bus. Alarms on KS-16 are configurable (4 of them - 3 beeps and one tilt-back) which I highly miss now on V8.

In short - I don't expect any major "overhaul" of current KS-16 models - just updated motor and CB most likely.

Thanks! Seems like the KS16 is the perfect size then, lets hope the 16S is not any taller. And that is a great review (+rep) so the V8 is indeed too big, good to know.

[nomad]

Hitting an unforseen bump it would be nice to know (for safety) the peak power too! I just wonder what's the peak power of these 16" wheels, multiplying the rated power by 3x give these numbers:

Inmotion V8 - 2400W ?
IPS 191 Lhotz - 3000W ?
Gotway ACM - 3000W (official spec)
Kingsong 16S - 3600W ?

So that's mostly guessing there but you can see how this would be interesting to know who's on top in this aspect.. Maybe the difference is not significant or maybe it one day saves you from a faceplant?

As for portability the V8 is too big, the Lhotz has no trolley and the ACM external trolley sticks out too much, so the KS16S wins (if it's not taller than older KS16).

I think those are the four best 16" wheels, all of them different and great choices. But I wish (for safety again) to see a 2.5" tire like the Lhotz has. With a fat tire the KS16S could be the most stable and safe portable wheel!