Alien Rides Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Not sure how to describe it, but I've noticed "slippage" on both the ACM(12 mosfet) and Msuper v3. I'm a heavier rider (200 lbs + backpack), and I've noticed this in the following ways: 1 - When starting to go up a steeper hill. The EUC will sometimes "slip" forward and feels like it's losing control. I've had to jump off a few times from this happening. 2 - When aggressively stopping. I live in a city so sometimes you need to aggressively stop for stoplights or when a car cuts you off. Sometimes the motor will slip a bit and feel like it's going to fall backwards. I can usually manage to stay on it though. In both cases it kind of feels like the EUC is dropping you in the direction of your lean by a few inches, but trying to catch you. I've seen this on both the ACM and Msuper v3. Has anyone else experienced this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
who_the Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Yikes, sounds worrisome. Got an Android phone to run WheelLog? Can lend you one next time I see you if you need one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Rider Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 @Kevin Grandon Glad you posted this as I was witness to this on our group ride. It is possible that this can be addressed with the firmware and hopefully does not become worse as in burned out boards. Its definitely the board that is an issue and @NevNutz has also experienced this on his Msuper 3 with braking. I am hoping @Jane Mo or someone at Gotway can address this ASAP and possibly give handheld units to distributors such as Nevin so he can update his customers wheels regarding faulty firmware issues in the boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Slippage is something quite "normal" for BLDC motors - if the magnetic "connection" from the magnets and coils is not strong enough they "slip" one stage back and regain (hopefully) a "magnetic connection" again with the next magnet/coils. It makes some loud rattling sound and is a definitive overload situation - the magnetic flux is not strong enough to keep the coil and magnets "synchron". this could also happen, if the firmware tries to change the commutation sequence too fast with not enough current (pwm duty cycle) so the magnetic flux is not high enough to keep the bldc in a "synchron state"(not sliping) for the needed torque (load) or the motor cannot provide as much load (already max current (duty cylce)...) i managed this once with my ninebot one e+, but never with my ks16 - with almost your weight ~95 kg. since the acm and msuper should be the most powerfull wheels (motor) by now you could hope for a firmware solution to come... ... but maybe you are just a reckless driver asking way too much acc/decelleration from your wheel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 This sounds a little bit like KS issues earlier so might be related as both KS and GW share the same "heritage" ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Ive experiece very similar slippage on a KS14c, after i installed their new motor. However, i am told by KS that their new CB is better suited for the new motor and this will cure the slippage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevin@Tec-toyz.com Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Yes, it has happened once under hard breaking. I kind of agree with what @Chriull was saying, although I don't think its that normal. Im sure it can be addressed in a Firmware update, this would have to be more wide spread of an issue though. Most wheels will most likely cut out though or burn up the mosfets!! I was a bit surprised the Msuper held up to the sudden stop I had to make. I am glad there is the added mosfets with all that current surging back through the PCB. If you are getting slippage under normal riding conditions, then you need to pin point which component/software(coding) is causing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martti Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 I experienced this today with Msuper v3. i accelrated hard from traffic lights and overleaned. Heard loud cranking nose and wheel stoped. I fell down to tarmac. No damage due to gloves, knee and elbow protecton and helmet, but extremely embaracing on the midle of the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 57 minutes ago, Martti said: I experienced this today with Msuper v3. i accelrated hard from traffic lights and overleaned. Heard loud cranking nose and wheel stoped. I fell down to tarmac. No damage due to gloves, knee and elbow protecton and helmet, but extremely embaracing on the midle of the street. Do you believe this was a case of "regular overleaning" and associated normal wheel behavior or a sign of something abnormal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16bitSprite Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 On 03/10/2016 at 5:33 AM, Chriull said: Slippage is something quite "normal" for BLDC motors - if the magnetic "connection" from the magnets and coils is not strong enough they "slip" one stage back and regain (hopefully) a "magnetic connection" again with the next magnet/coils. It makes some loud rattling sound and is a definitive overload situation - the magnetic flux is not strong enough to keep the coil and magnets "synchron". this could also happen, if the firmware tries to change the commutation sequence too fast with not enough current (pwm duty cycle) so the magnetic flux is not high enough to keep the bldc in a "synchron state"(not sliping) for the needed torque (load) or the motor cannot provide as much load (already max current (duty cylce)...) i managed this once with my ninebot one e+, but never with my ks16 - with almost your weight ~95 kg. since the acm and msuper should be the most powerfull wheels (motor) by now you could hope for a firmware solution to come... ... but maybe you are just a reckless driver asking way too much acc/decelleration from your wheel... Is this sort of behaviour damaging to to wheel in any way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martti Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 On 10. lokakuuta 2016 at 8:39 PM, Cloud said: Do you believe this was a case of "regular overleaning" and associated normal wheel behavior or a sign of something abnormal? I have have never overleaned before, cant say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 On 11.10.2016 at 1:57 AM, 16bitSprite said: Is this sort of behaviour damaging to to wheel in any way? Don't think so - it's quite the max load put on the wheel and by this quite the highest possible use but imho it should be nothing to be concerned about. If this slippage happens quite regularly i would consider that either my wheel has some problems (bad motherboard, motor, firmware... etc) or my driving style is way too much for the wheel... But i'd assume it's not easy to consistently drive in a way to overload like this an ACM or MSuper V3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16bitSprite Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 39 minutes ago, Chriull said: Don't think so - it's quite the max load put on the wheel and by this quite the highest possible use but imho it should be nothing to be concerned about. If this slippage happens quite regularly i would consider that either my wheel has some problems (bad motherboard, motor, firmware... etc) or my driving style is way too much for the wheel... But i'd assume it's not easy to consistently drive in a way to overload like this an ACM or MSuper V3 Thanks for the info. These wheels take enough of a beating as it is. I'd hate to think the motors could be damaged by over exerting them in this way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlymex Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 The "slippage" happened to my V3 too when I had the swing test together with some noise. It did not happen to my V2 on the same test, V2 just gave in but still has big enough torque to let you recover, and the gave-in make no noise. This happened too when I climb steep slopes when the wheel gives in(the pedal dips) I sometimes can recover without out of balance(stay on the wheel). If "slippage" happens I am sure I will dismount. Also there is this similar thing worries me is that when come across a small ditch or small ramp on the road, V3 gives similar noise as if it is about to slip. I have ridden V2 for more than 6000km and this thing had never happened to my V2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 I had slippage on the MSuperV2 as I was in Paris a few weeks ago. As the people over there have a special driving style I was forced one time to break hard. And the pedals had gone down in the end witch a klick/ klonk or what ever noise. It was not enough degree to the back to switch off but I showed me that with my weight there's even on the MSuperV2 a limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Vu Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 So basically what everybody is saying is that this happens under extreme braking or extreme hill climbing. I'll be curious if someone can figure out an objective way to say under what load and forces causes any wheel to "slip". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 50 minutes ago, Michael Vu said: So basically what everybody is saying is that this happens under extreme braking or extreme hill climbing. I'll be curious if someone can figure out an objective way to say under what load and forces causes any wheel to "slip". I can show you this on all EUCs. Enough weight and you can push more or less every EUCs to the bottom while hard braking (no emergency braking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Vu Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 3 hours ago, OliverH said: I can show you this on all EUCs. Enough weight and you can push more or less every EUCs to the bottom while hard braking (no emergency braking Yes that's exactly what I am saying in my 2nd sentence. But specifically, what are the actually forces and variables that cause any wheel to slip. Saying that it will happen with enough weight and force doesn't figure out anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 7 hours ago, Michael Vu said: Yes that's exactly what I am saying in my 2nd sentence. But specifically, what are the actually forces and variables that cause any wheel to slip. Saying that it will happen with enough weight and force doesn't figure out anything. It's very easy. The motors haven't enough torque. 150 kg load like advertised for KS18 is just a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 On 10.10.2016 at 6:41 PM, Martti said: I experienced this today with Msuper v3. i accelrated hard from traffic lights and overleaned. Heard loud cranking nose and wheel stoped. I fell down to tarmac. No damage due to gloves, knee and elbow protecton and helmet, but extremely embaracing on the midle of the street. @Michael Vu There has been an answer from GW to this on Facebook... its no "magnet slipping".....Gotway cuts on 120amp the motor for a nanosecond...so that the board did not fry! thats also the reason why this happens only on V3....as this wheel has more Watts than v2...and so needs much more amps on extrem braking! better the wheel just goes away for a nanosecond than boardfried...or? i also have to say that until now that never happend to my v3...but i have done some extrem/emergency brakes...with my 100kg... so must be very extrem situation, to get it to nanocutout! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlymex Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 IMO, this 12-MOSFET board has flaw(the board of ACM ans V3 are the same). Why 6-MOSFET board of V2 handles 1000W well but 12--MOSFET board cannot handle 1500W? There has been several instances that the board fried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 2 hours ago, zlymex said: IMO, this 12-MOSFET board has flaw(the board of ACM ans V3 are the same). Why 6-MOSFET board of V2 handles 1000W well but 12--MOSFET board cannot handle 1500W? There has been several instances that the board fried. Electrons find the shortest way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martti Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 8 hours ago, KingSong69 said: @Michael Vu There has been an answer from GW to this on Facebook... its no "magnet slipping".....Gotway cuts on 120amp the motor for a nanosecond...so that the board did not fry! thats also the reason why this happens only on V3....as this wheel has more Watts than v2...and so needs much more amps on extrem braking! better the wheel just goes away for a nanosecond than boardfried...or? i also have to say that until now that never happend to my v3...but i have done some extrem/emergency brakes...with my 100kg... so must be very extrem situation, to get it to nanocutout! Thanks, Sometimes I hear this cranking sound when landing from slow speed jump and weight on heels. However never tilted doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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