dmethvin Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 8 hours ago, Fahrtwind said: 1) The indicator of the charger switches from red to green when the current is lower than 400mA. This does NOT mean your wheel is completely full! Watch the battery indicator. The wheel is at 100% if all bars a constantly on. Many of you know, LiIon batteries are charged first with constant current, then the BMS changes to constant voltage. The last 5% needs a lot of time to get charged. It's better for the batteries lifetime to not charge to absolute maximum anyway. If you are going on a trip where you know you will need the full range, charge the battery to full very close to the time you are going to leave so that it doesn't sit fully charged for a long time. 8 hours ago, Fahrtwind said: It is remarked in many uniwheel manuals you have to make the 220V connection first before you plug in the charging plug in the wheel. Disconnecting in reverse sequence. At least on the Firewheel, if I connect the 4amp charger to the wheel first I always get a loud "pop" sound. I can see some pitting to the connector from doing this by accident a few times. There is no reverse-current protection on the wheel's charging port or in the charger, so the battery voltage is rushing back into the charger and charging the output capacitors. By plugging in the charger first it brings the charger output very close to the battery potential and no pop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddylaz Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 @Jason McNeil Hi Jason, is there anywhere/anyone you can think of whereby I could get a test drive of the v5f+ in the UK? Either through Wheelgo or similar? In the market for a second wheel but would like to get a feel of this one before coming to a decision. Happy to pay a 'try-out' charge or something ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Paddylaz said: Happy to pay a 'try-out' charge or something ? Don't be silly , for experienced riders, no charge. Can you drop me an email at jason@ewheels.com & we can coordinate logistics. About range: I did a sort-of range test today, rode the Wheel from the box until 20%, got 40km! There was no change in behaviour to maximize range, e.g. normal riding style with >80% of the time cruising 23-25kph. This is better than 10Wh/km. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddylaz Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 5 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: Don't be silly , for experienced riders, no charge. Can you drop me an email at jason@ewheels.com & we can coordinate logistics. Awesome, will do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefork Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 17 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: About range: I did a sort-of range test today, rode the Wheel from the box until 20%, got 40km! There was no change in behaviour to maximize range, e.g. normal riding style with >80% of the time cruising 23-25kph. This is better than 10Wh/km. Fantastic! Did you notice any differences in behavior when nearing 20% charge? Any sluggishness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 6 minutes ago, thefork said: Fantastic! Did you notice any differences in behavior when nearing 20% charge? Any sluggishness? Not that I could detect, even at 20% I was able to keep the speed at 25kph. The out-of-battery voltage is tad bit higher than a fully charged 'normal' Electric unicycle at 68v (vs. 67.2v). I haven't connected a datalogger to it yet, but the evidence with low battery related cut-outs, is usually because the voltage falls below the minimum critical threshold. Does operating at a higher (84v max) voltage make it safer when the battery is nearly depleted? It's a question that needs to be put to the test, maybe this weekend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 4 hours ago, houseofjob said: Thanks for the videos! Wa... was there a V5F in the first one? I was a little distracted... didn't even notice a wheel in it for some reason. It looks like the handle is really well designed, and I see the locking button there. I think everyone should thank Jason for lobbying InMotion so hard to get the plus+ model made with the higher end batteries as it looks like it's not widely available. That's a very nice touch that's definitely worth it. To upgrade it later would be pretty difficult and expensive as the battery pack is a bit unusual. 40 km from the get go to 20%? Crazy! My Ninebot only goes to about 28 km in the app, and I haven't tested it that far yet so it's likely optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 @HunkaHunkaBurningLove Hunka...Hunka..Hunka... What was the distraction? Oh..I got it...her fancy colorful shoes...or maybe you were worried about her being to close to the manhole cover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Manhole cover? I'll have to rewatch that video as I think I keep missing a few important details... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Why aren't there beautiful girls like that riding around my area? I road though a beautiful park last week,saw no girls, just one ugly guy on a skateboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 OK now I know I'm getting old, I saw the video with the girl in it and barely noticed the girl. Awesome locking handle tho, I'll be interested in how well that holds up over time. That sort of design would transfer to other wheels better than the KS16 where it has to retract inside the body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 6 hours ago, Jason McNeil said: Does operating at a higher (84v max) voltage make it safer when the battery is nearly depleted? It's a question that needs to be put to the test, maybe this weekend... It seems the Inmotion V5F+ uses a lot more voltage than Ninebot or even most other wheels. Don't most wheels top out around 62 volts? The higher voltage would give a lot more power for hills I would think. That's one of the things that attracted me into looking at the Inmotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 30 minutes ago, steve454 said: It seems the Inmotion V5F+ uses a lot more voltage than Ninebot or even most other wheels. Don't most wheels top out around 62 volts? The higher voltage would give a lot more power for hills I would think. That's one of the things that attracted me into looking at the Inmotion. Most wheels use 16S (16 cells in series, 16 * 3.7V = 59.2V nominal, 16 * 4.2V = 67.2V maximum voltage) -packs, Ninebots (and maybe some other, don't remember right now) use 15S (55.5V nominal / 63V maximum). Rumor is that the new Rockwheel would use packs with around 100V voltage (although don't know if that's the maximum or nominal). Higher voltage requires more costly components, larger battery packs (more cells needed) and at some point might become a risk for the rider (you don't want to get zapped by high voltage line, even though it is current which kills you, the higher the voltage, the more current can pass through the resistance of your body). But at the same time, more voltage means less current needed for the same amount of power (vs. a lower voltage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 That's interesting, do you think that the new trend in EUC technology is to use more voltage but less current to avoid overheating components? I read a couple of years ago that car manufacturers were considering a 24 volt electrical system (and that the military uses a 48 volt system) but apparently they stayed with 12 volts. I had a volkswagen beetle 1962 model that had a 6 volt system, and it seemed to work fine. What are the advantages of the Inmotion system I wonder? Have you seen their battery design? It is semicircular, very unusual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 45 minutes ago, steve454 said: That's interesting, do you think that the new trend in EUC technology is to use more voltage but less current to avoid overheating components? Hard to say, the 16S -pack seems to have become some sort of a "de facto", at least for now. If multiple manufacturers order the packs from the same factory, there might be cost benefits in using a "standard" (well, not really a standard, but same as others) cell amount, as the manufacturer needs to setup the assembly only for one "size". But, at least Ninebot went their own route, so did InMotion, and apparently Rockway is taking its own path (at some point) too. And then there's Firewheel with the weird 8S2P / 4S4P -series setups between different higher capacity models (well, they're still 67.2V max), although I'm not sure if the company still even exists, they haven't released anything new since the around 2-year old F-series. Too bad, while the wheel is technologically very advanced (even today), what they fucked up was the weird battery system (well, problem only to those who want to mod it ), non-existant sealing and badly designed shells (when it comes to repairs / modding). EDIT: Oh, plus it's a "killer" (not in the good sense) without shunted packs (at least the older boards that actually used the BMS-input in the mainboard), as it has no tilt-back and would just shut-off from under you above 28km/h... shunted, I've ridden mine somewhere around 31-32km/h and hobby16 has taken his above 35km/h. Not bad for 550W / 600W motor. Quote I read a couple of years ago that car manufacturers were considering a 24 volt electrical system (and that the military uses a 48 volt system) but apparently they stayed with 12 volts. I had a volkswagen beetle 1962 model that had a 6 volt system, and it seemed to work fine. What are the advantages of the Inmotion system I wonder? Have you seen their battery design? It is semicircular, very unusual. Probably the 12V -system in cars is also a "standard" thing. If you had a car model that used different voltages than (most) others, there might be less buyers, as spare parts could be harder to find or more costly... but that's just guessing. I don't recall seeing a picture of the InMotion-battery pack, but semicircular shape does sound a bit odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 8 minutes ago, esaj said: I don't recall seeing a picture of the InMotion-battery pack, but semicircular shape does sound a bit odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 40 minutes ago, esaj said: Probably the 12V -system in cars is also a "standard" thing. If you had a car model that used different voltages than (most) others, there might be less buyers, as spare parts could be harder to find or more costly... but that's just guessing. You're probably right, they teased us to see market share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhpr262 Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 8 hours ago, steve454 said: That's interesting, do you think that the new trend in EUC technology is to use more voltage but less current to avoid overheating components? I read a couple of years ago that car manufacturers were considering a 24 volt electrical system (and that the military uses a 48 volt system) 48V systems are a big thing in the auto industry at the moment because that is enough voltage for a mild hybrid system. That means you have an electric motor that supports the gas engine but can't run the car without it, except maybe getting in and out of your garage. It is also enough to run an electric super/turbocharger. At the same time it is not enough voltage to require genuine, elaborate and very expensive high voltage electronics and safety systems. A huge benefit vs. 12V is of course that all the wiring needs only a quarter of the cross section of 12V systems, a sa aquarter of the current will suffice. That means considerable savings in raw materials, weight and money. High voltage setups are also a growing trend in the RC car market - pretty much any 1/8th scale car sold today comes with at least the capability of using 6s lipos, while 4s was the standard just a couple of years ago. People are also experimenting with 8s already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 9 hours ago, steve454 said: It seems the Inmotion V5F+ uses a lot more voltage than Ninebot or even most other wheels. Don't most wheels top out around 62 volts? The higher voltage would give a lot more power for hills I would think. That's one of the things that attracted me into looking at the Inmotion. Efficiency (reduction in losses due to heat) and power can certainly be improved with higher voltage batteries. and I think Inmotion have made a good call. However, really 80-90V d.c. Is around the maximum voltage for safety especially if very high current is also on offer. My grandparents electricity supply was originally 100V d.c. and, I gather, from my grandpa's tales that was enough to kill. Worst, a.c. tends to pulse the muscles throwing an electrocuted person away from the source, d.c. tends to hold the person attached so 240V a.c. Is actually safer than 100V d.c. Much higher than 80V and there would have to be real strenuous efforts to double insulate everything, getting water into the control board, motor or battery could be fatal, and users poking about in the innards doesn't bear thinking about :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 56 minutes ago, Keith said: ... My grandparents electricity supply was originally 100V d.c. and, I gather, from my grandpa's tales that was enough to kill. Worst, a.c. tends to pulse the muscles throwing an electrocuted person away from the source, d.c. tends to hold the person attached so 240V a.c. Is actually safer than 100V d.c. Much higher than 80V and there would have to be real strenuous efforts to double insulate everything, getting water into the control board, motor or battery could be fatal, and users poking about in the innards doesn't bear thinking about :-) In ?Austria?/Germany we have the term "Kleinspannungen" (low Voltages) which goes up to 50V AC or 120V DC and these values are the limits for continous allowed "contact voltage" and for normal adult humuans considered as not life-threatening. (Edit: For wet rooms, etc there are other limits...) Voltage below 25V AC and 60V DC are considered as safe also for "animals and childs" But i assume that it is not really funny to touch 120V DC.... ;( For Europe there exists a directive for the upper range of low voltages (above 50 V AV effective and 75V DC) - which i have no time to read by now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Keith said: Worst, a.c. tends to pulse the muscles throwing an electrocuted person away from the source, d.c. tends to hold the person attached so 240V a.c. Is actually safer than 100V d.c. My understanding is that AC is much more dangerous than DC, because basically your body is like a resistor with a capacitor in parallel. The DC voltage will "see" a high resistance, but the AC-voltage will see a low impedance due to the capacitance, so much lower voltage of AC can pass lethal current through your body vs. DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Keith said: ... Worst, a.c. tends to pulse the muscles throwing an electrocuted person away from the source, d.c. tends to hold the person attached so 240V a.c. Is actually safer than 100V d.c. ... 3 minutes ago, esaj said: My understanding is that AC is much more dangerous than DC, because basically your body is like a resistor with a capacitor in parallel. The DC voltage will "see" a high resistance, but the AC-voltage will see a low impedance due to the capacitance, so much lower voltage of AC can pass lethal current through your body vs. DC. Don't know if the capacitance is big enough to have an effect with 50Hz. The main danger i konw for AC is that the alternating current can influence badly a human heart. It's not build to beat at 50 Hz ;( thats not happening with DC - there the muscles only get cooked/warmed/cramping and one tends to stick to the voltage and can't release easily... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 21 hours ago, dmethvin said: I'll be interested in how well that holds up over time. That sort of design would transfer to other wheels better than the KS16 where it has to retract inside the body. I'll be interested to see if the wheel can be lifted with extracted handle. If not possible it would be sort of disadvantageous than KS16 design. I often need to lift the wheel to pass some short stairs, for the long one - better with folded handle. Otherwise, Inmotion V5...etc. is a beauty, I've always been in love with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 2 hours ago, DS said: I'll be interested to see if the wheel can be lifted with extracted handle. If not possible it would be sort of disadvantageous than KS16 design. I often need to lift the wheel to pass some short stairs, for the long one - better with folded handle. Otherwise, Inmotion V5...etc. is a beauty, I've always been in love with it as long as the "extracted handle" is not connected to the on/off button underneath the grip....i think it will NOT work to lift it up...like with all other wheels! Thats something that i have not seen on any wheel until now....and what is missing! but its still a plus to have these "power cut" buttton for normal lifting, its at all a progress :-) i also hate it to move/lift/carry the wheel ..and alltimes have to think about powering off! something for "next generation" wheels ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 On 22/07/2016 at 6:02 PM, esaj said: I don't recall seeing a picture of the InMotion-battery pack, but semicircular shape does sound a bit odd. Here's a disassembly video of the V5 which I think is probably the same? You can see the battery housed in the top of the shell. There's like a bazillion screws in this thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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