Kingsong KS16-A Tinnitus and more...

[sbouju]

Like planes, EUCs need some kind of basic "Flight Data Recorder", I think...

[Henrik Olsen]

@DS Yes, true I bought my wheel direct from KS, but they don't tell you these details up front...   so if somebody had the information It would save time to provide the info.. 

[Henrik Olsen]

I just took my KS16 for an 11km ride, with some 1km long inclines... The incline was done with speeds between 22-24kph and I did not seem to change the temperature more than 1C... the wheel started out at 26C on leveled out around 47C... I'm +90kg and the ambient temp is around 18-20C... so far I can't make it overheat...  

[Addwyn]

4 minutes ago, Henrik Olsen said:

I just took my KS16 for an 11km ride, with some 1km long inclines... The incline was done with speeds between 22-24kph and I did not seem to change the temperature more than 1C... the wheel started out at 26C on leveled out around 47C... I'm +90kg and the ambient temp is around 18-20C... so far I can't make it overheat... 

@Henrik Olsen, What is your firmware version ?

[DS]

Useful info @Henrik Olsen, if more KS16 owners do similar tests, that would help to define the overheating problem - is it general or @Addwyn is the unlucky one to get the faulty unit...not to rule out other options like firmware issues.

I will definitely do incline test when I (hopefully in the next week or so) get my KS16.

[Henrik Olsen]

my current firmware is 1.16

[Jason McNeil]

@Addwyn, what rotten luck, sorry to hear about the fall. Did KS France have any insights to offer—they've been using their early serial numbers for more than a month now? I've also reached out to Tina to see if there's been any internal theories about possible causes of the cut-out. 

Finally received our first KS16" this week & have been testing it out over the past couple days. The temperature here in Miami is well above 90°F (>+32°C) even after 8 miles stays below 50°C. I'm going to try recreating the over-heating condition to test that the behaviour is identical to the other models, which is hard tilt-back. 

9 hours ago, DS said:

1. 50C - the fan turns on;

2. 70C - sound warning;

3. 75C - soft tiltback;

4. 80C - hard tiltback.

Unless they've change something in the firmware the two temperature threshold points are:

1. 50C - fan is enabled;
2. 70C - hard tilt-back

[Jason McNeil]

Ok, tested idling for about 15 minutes to raise the temperature to 65°C, which produced an audible alert (continuous periodic single beep), continued on to 71°C. On this early version of firmware, 1.07, you can continue to rock-back & forth without any extreme tilt-back, but as soon as you move in a forward direction, the 15° pedal incline is engaged. Tried downloading the updated firmware, however, the new 'beta' App can't connect to the backend server.

[Addwyn]

On 6/5/2016 at 8:17 PM, Gunthor said:

@Addwyn,
I remember that last week firmware 1.18 got offered by the app but I didn't install it. Yesterday when I updated the firmware version 1.19 got offered and I installed it. This means my KS16 runs now on firmware 1.18 (I had firmware 1.16 installed and missed out on firmware 1.17). The funny thing with the KS-App is, that it always offers a higher version (1.19) to download than there is (1.18). So my question to you @Addwyn is if you really installed firmware 1.18 or if you installed the firmware when the app displayed "New version: 1.18" when doing the upgrade. Because then you'd be running version 1.17 and maybe KS already corrected the bug in version 1.18... (that's called "wishful thinking" )?

As I said before : "I didn't change anything with my KS since my fall and right now, the app is showing that current firmware is v1.18"...

BUT, I'm not sure this is "the same v1.18" as the one you got with the offered v1.19 Dowload because I remember that the offered Download, when I did my last firmware upgrade before my accident, was v1.18 (not v1.19) ! Yes, the offered Download was v1.18. I Downloaded it and Updated the KS16. After that, the App showed that my CurrentVersion was v1.18 (not v1.17 as it should) and did not offer any Download anymore (no v1.19 Download offered that day) !

When you told here that there was a new firmware version v1.19, I looked at the App again (as I did not change anything in the KS since my fall) and it showed that the CurrentVersion is still "v1.18" BUT offers to Download v1.19 !!! Thus, my Current "v1.18" may be the "v 1.18" you didn't Download (since I didn't download "v1.19" before yesterday)...

So, from what I can remerber, my firmwares'versions history is:

Date : Versions showed by Android App before update  ----Actions--->  Versions showed by Android App after update

2016 april  : CurrentVersion:V1.13, NewVersion:V1.16  ---[Download]+[Update]--->  CurrentVersion:V1.15, NewVersion:V1.16
2016 april  : CurrentVersion:V1.15, NewVersion:V1.17  ---[Download]+[Update]--->  CurrentVersion:V1.16, NewVersion:V1.17
2016 may 04: CurrentVersion:V1.16, NewVersion:V1.18  ---[Download]+[Update]--->  CurrentVersion:V1.18, no NewVersion offered !

2016 may 04: Engine cut-off accident...
2016 may 06: CurrentVersion:V1.18, NewVersion:V1.19  ---> Screenshot (no download/update done).
2016 may 22: CurrentVersion:V1.18, NewVersion:V1.19  ---[Download]+[Update]--->  CurrentVersion:V1.18, newVersion:V1.19
 

 

[Jason McNeil]

Weather permitting, I'm going to allocate some time to do some limit testing (acceleration & top speed) this week, with both the original 1.15 firmware & the latest. 

Also received the Firmware change log from KS this morning, has:

V1.16, has update over-power issue. over-power is occur when the balance has reached a limit

V1.17, we have updated burn-fuse issue, update current.

V1.18 has updated the total mileage calculation error.  

V1.19 is same as V1.18

 

 

[Addwyn]

46 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

Weather permitting, I'm going to allocate some time to do some limit testing (acceleration & top speed) this week, with both the original 1.15 firmware & the latest. 

Also received the Firmware change log from KS this morning, has:

V1.16, has update over-power issue. over-power is occur when the balance has reached a limit

V1.17, we have updated burn-fuse issue, update current.

V1.18 has updated the total mileage calculation error.  

V1.19 is same as V1.18

 

 

Do you know the posting dates-times of these versions (availability dates for general public) ?

 

[Jason McNeil]

35 minutes ago, Addwyn said:

Do you know the posting dates-times of these versions (availability dates for general public) ?

No, but I can inquire....

[DS]

On 5/23/2016 at 5:56 PM, Jason McNeil said:

V1.16, has update over-power issue.

I'm not sure what over-power issue do they refer, but I had twice false start (needed to fast step ahead off) without over leaning the wheel. Actually, this wheel is so powerful, that even intentionally with my weight I'm not able to over lean it   Other times (occasionally), when I start, it feels weak for a second.

IMO, it's a firmware, definitely not mechanical issue because the wheel overall runs smooth and powerful.

By the way, there is high pitched noise, but I can hear it only in very quiet surrounding and if the music is not on...which is not the case most of the times. The fan is really smooth and quiet...I needed to stick my ear to the shell IOT hear it.

[Blunzn]

maybe this was/is the power issue @ 1:25 ? but don't know which firmware or what model he has (340Wh or 680+)

 

[OliverH]

37 minutes ago, Blunzn said:

maybe this was/is the power issue @ 1:25 ? but don't know which firmware or what model he has (340Wh or 680+)

 

It's a 680 Wh version. It's a KS16 of friend of mine. I think not updated.

[Jason McNeil]

KS have some Firmware gremlins to sort out: yesterday they pulled user updateable firmware through the App until they do more extensive testing—this is commendable but they still have a large user base running v1.15-v1.17. 

The immediate plan needs to be that all the owners are updated to a stable release, but until then it's recommended to ride conservatively for acceleration. 

[OliverH]

15 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

KS have some Firmware gremlins to sort out: yesterday they pulled user updateable firmware through the App until they do more extensive testing—this is commendable but they still have a large user base running v1.15-v1.17. 

The immediate plan needs to be that all the owners are updated to a stable release, but until then it's recommended to ride conservatively for acceleration. 

Not learning from the Ninebot problems looks crazy. I haven't updated our KS16 and I haven't unlocked the speed limit for reason. Is there a test concept?

[Jurgen]

On Monday, April 11, 2016 at 9:28 PM, Jason McNeil said:

Nice! That's some sexy data  It's difficult to see what can be done to reduce the resonant harmonics inside the motor hub (?) without undesiered complications. If they add a thin barrier on the hub plate, it's going act as insulation. Still, could be worth investigating... 

You could ask the manufacturer to send out a counterbalancing noise through the speaker, this would be an elegant way to solve the issue

[ThomasK]

BTW, does anyone of the KS16-riders know what the meaning of the 2 beeps is which I am hearing shortly after beginning to ride (during the first 20 to 100 meters)?

Edited on Friday May 27th:-

Speed limits are changed and I should have stated that when I hear the 2 beeps within the first 2 minutes of driving it is certainly not due to the fact that I have reached the 1st speed limit. I thought of this possibility as well and tested for it but I get the 2 beeps even if I drive the 1st 5 minutes 10 to 12 km/h only.

Voice warnings are switched on, but no voice warning to be heard - only the 2 beeps. Not going downhill on a fully charged wheel. And no sharp breaking. Just cruising slowly on relatively flat surface.

 

@Addwyn First of all my best wishes for a speedy recovery. I am just wondering if the burning of the main fuse you reported only a few days before the accident was the first sign that something is probably wrong with your wheel? 

[DS]

On 5/25/2016 at 3:06 AM, ThomasK said:

BTW, does anyone of the KS16-riders know what the meaning of the 2 beeps is which I am hearing shortly after beginning to ride (during the first 20 to 100 meters)?

If you had not changed the speed limit settings, the two beeps could be that you've reached 18 km/h

[ThomasK]

1 hour ago, DS said:

If you had not changed the speed limit settings, the two beeps could be that you've reached 18 km/h

Speed limits are changed and I should have stated that when I hear the 2 beeps within the first 2 minutes of driving it is certainly not due to the fact that I have reached the 1st speed limit. I thought of this possibility as well and tested for it but I get the 2 beeps even if I drive the 1st 5 minutes 10 to 12 km/h only.

Sorry that I have not been more specific .

[Sawyer]

9 hours ago, ThomasK said:

Speed limits are changed and I should have stated that when I hear the 2 beeps within the first 2 minutes of driving it is certainly not due to the fact that I have reached the 1st speed limit. I thought of this possibility as well and tested for it but I get the 2 beeps even if I drive the 1st 5 minutes 10 to 12 km/h only.

Sorry that I have not been more specific .

Could be the overvoltage warning if you start fully charged and go downhill or break abruptly. If you switch on the voice warnings it will say clearly.

[ThomasK]

4 hours ago, Sawyer said:

Could be the overvoltage warning if you start fully charged and go downhill or break abruptly. If you switch on the voice warnings it will say clearly.

Voice warnings are switched on, but no voice warning to be heard - only the 2 beeps. Not going downhill on a fully charged wheel. And no sharp breaking. Just cruising slowly on relatively flat surface.

Sorry that I have not been more specific beforehand. I've just edited my original post.

[Sawyer]

A counter noise always works only for a certain receiving point if the distance to the sources is not much larger than their distance. The relative phase of both fields has to be constantly opposite at the receiver and is depending on the distance to the sources. Not sure, if the audio-part can be coupled phase synchronously to the PWM motor -driver-circuitry at all.

[Blunzn]

On 25.5.2016 at 2:06 AM, ThomasK said:

BTW, does anyone of the KS16-riders know what the meaning of the 2 beeps is which I am hearing shortly after beginning to ride (during the first 20 to 100 meters)?

chriull's and mine KS16 had these double-beep too. appx 1 to 2 minutes after starting. i got rid of it through upgrading the firmware. 

i would guess some debug beep that they forgot to switch off