Addwyn Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 Thank you all for your wishes. @Gunthor, Yes, I found exactly the same fuse as the original manufacturer's fuse. Moreover, it still works and the wheel also works fine after this mishap. The wheel does not suffer any damage except some scratches. @Henrik Olsen, The battery was almost full before my departure. It's now 75% (ie. it was therefore about 75% when the engine suddenly stopped (I have not done anything since). I'am 72 Kg. @Chriull11, The ambient temperature was 20° Celcius. @Henrik Olsen I was climbing a positive incline (but I don't precisely know its value. I guess it is below 10 °. Il'll try to measure it later whith a GPS) @Jeffrey Scott Will, I do not know if there had a warning or not before the engine cut-off. There may had a tilt-back that I did not notice... Or maybe not ! Honestly, I can't say. As I was a little shocked after my fall, I did not think to investigate more precisely about what happened (I did'nt look at the system temperature). Personally I am not convinced that the initial cause of the engine cut-off is an overheating of the control board. I would lean more towards a battery's internal security system, such as over-current protection system or whatever kind of thing. I think (I hope !) that if it was really a control-board's overheating problem, the voice would have reported "overheat" BEFORE any cut-off... Now, for some days, Codein is my new friend.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planetpapi Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 @Addwyn Sorry about your fall. I hope you recover fast. I'm not sure what to say. We kind of think KS is good but again shit happens to them too? You should report what happened exactly with all possible details to KS. It seems they listen to customers better than other brands. Take rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 Thank you @Addwyn for sharing your experience with us, bad or good. Wish you fast and stable recovery. For the incident, as you described it, there is no visible reason for the wheel to cut off in such conditions - light rider, no extreme temperature and not a steep incline. Looks like we, the new technology early adopters are kind of testers. It's hard when riding such a funny thing all the time to be prepared to run it off or try to do parcour style safety landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Scott Will Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 @tinawong, if you're active here, any input on the overheating situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addwyn Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 Here are some Google Street View's pics to figure out the incline and the street length: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Olsen Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 I don't get it.. If this happens uphill at fairly low speed the temperature should be easy to predict... the wheel force you to slow down and warn with overheating... it does not require energy to slow down when it's up hill... should be an easy one for them to fix... @tinawong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunthor Posted May 6, 2016 Author Share Posted May 6, 2016 @Addwyn, This looks like a good incline. Today I traveled 39 Km because I took a detour and avoided the 17% incline back home. The detour was pretty long: but offered only 2 to 5% incline (max). I was done in 23 minutes and did not stretch my arms forward - but was full awake and alert all the time... all went well, even though I didn't crawl uphill. However - while on the road I was wondering if you really have firmware 1.18 installed. Here are my thoughts: I remember that last week firmware 1.18 got offered by the app but I didn't install it. Yesterday when I updated the firmware version 1.19 got offered and I installed it. This means my KS16 runs now on firmware 1.18 (I had firmware 1.16 installed and missed out on firmware 1.17). The funny thing with the KS-App is, that it always offers a higher version (1.19) to download than there is (1.18). So my question to you @Addwyn is if you really installed firmware 1.18 or if you installed the firmware when the app displayed "New version: 1.18" when doing the upgrade. Because then you'd be running version 1.17 and maybe KS already corrected the bug in version 1.18... (that's called "wishful thinking" )? BTW: The odometer seems to work now. However I'll report back as son as it displays more than 200 Km. It always switched back to ~70-80 Km when I reached > 160 Km. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planetpapi Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 I hope it's not firmware issue with this incident. If it was, then we have a problem. Let's wait for some answers from KS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addwyn Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 1 hour ago, Gunthor said: @Addwyn, [...] I was wondering if you really have firmware 1.18 installed. Here are my thoughts: I remember that last week firmware 1.18 got offered by the app but I didn't install it. Yesterday when I updated the firmware version 1.19 got offered and I installed it. This means my KS16 runs now on firmware 1.18 (I had firmware 1.16 installed and missed out on firmware 1.17). The funny thing with the KS-App is, that it always offers a higher version (1.19) to download than there is (1.18). So my question to you @Addwyn is if you really installed firmware 1.18 or if you installed the firmware when the app displayed "New version: 1.18" when doing the upgrade. Because then you'd be running version 1.17 and maybe KS already corrected the bug in version 1.18... (that's called "wishful thinking" )? [...] @Gunthor, Yes, my KS16 really have firmware v1.18 (I didn't change anything with my KS since my fall and right now, the app is showing that current firmware is v1.18 and it offers to download v1.19 (I didn't know till now that there has a new firmware v1.19) : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Olsen Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 @Addwyn have you ruled out fan fallure? You do need to take the wheel apart... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunthor Posted May 6, 2016 Author Share Posted May 6, 2016 @Henrik Olsen, give our single-armed warrior a rest. I fear if one of his work colleagues read that he manages to disassemble his wheel with just one arm then his leave might be over. @Addwyn, Thank you for your answer. However, concentrate on your recovery! And then - if you have a good friend who might be willing to help - consider Henrik Olsens request. You probably aren't even allowed to use your left fingers for typing - aren't you...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Olsen Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 @Gunthor dooh, my bad... Just eager to figure out what is going on. Took my own wheel for a spin, but not anywhere close to 39km... But still 5km and then up my 100m/15dgr test slope multiple times, and the temperature stayed at 41/42C... Not very scientific, but would expect it to rise and come down again when climbing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addwyn Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 2 hours ago, Henrik Olsen said: @Addwyn have you ruled out fan fallure? @Gunthor, You'r totally right. It's impossible for me to reopen the KS16 with one hand ! (and it's not easy to type with only one hand neither) @Henrik Olsen, In page 2 of this topic @Gunthor said that " The fan turns on at 50°C ". So, even with two operating hands, how to know if the fan is working well when needed ? In my opinion, a fan failure would not be a satisfactory explanation because in the case of a control board's overheat, whatever its cause, fan failure or not, the wheel should follow a safe emergency-slowdown protocol up to a total softstop... A fan failure could indeed be the fount of an earlier overheat, but it shouldn't be the fount of an engine cut-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Olsen Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 @Addwyn agree fan fallure or any failure should lead to power cut... As mentioned earligere should be preventable by having the wheel react on the temperature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 @Addwyn: if you turn on the "music system" only (smaller button beside main power button) the fan is running all the time and (at least at my ks16) hearable in a quiet surrounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMo Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 8 hours ago, Addwyn said: @Gunthor, You'r totally right. It's impossible for me to reopen the KS16 with one hand ! (and it's not easy to type with only one hand neither) @Henrik Olsen, In page 2 of this topic @Gunthor said that " The fan turns on at 50°C ". So, even with two operating hands, how to know if the fan is working well when needed ? In my opinion, a fan failure would not be a satisfactory explanation because in the case of a control board's overheat, whatever its cause, fan failure or not, the wheel should follow a safe emergency-slowdown protocol up to a total softstop... A fan failure could indeed be the fount of an earlier overheat, but it shouldn't be the fount of an engine cut-off. This could be a single issue of a defective mainboard and not the design in general. There is always some defective units in a batch. That is why there is always some warranty available to buyers. The bad thing is @Addwyn is the unlucky one. Wishing you a speedy recovery @Addwyn and hope that Kingsong make good tems with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Scott Will Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 1 hour ago, SlowMo said: This could be a single issue of a defective mainboard and not the design in general. There is always some defective units in a batch. That is why there is always some warranty available to buyers. The bad thing is @Addwyn is the unlucky one. Wishing you a speedy recovery @Addwyn and hope that Kingsong make good tems with you. Yes, I think I was overreacting earlier. First a blown fuse, then cut with possibly no warning. Sounds like maybe something's faulty with his particular unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Olsen Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 do we know what the threshold is for overheat? fan kicks in at 50C? but does it overheat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addwyn Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 4 hours ago, Chriull said: @Addwyn: if you turn on the "music system" only (smaller button beside main power button) the fan is running all the time and (at least at my ks16) hearable in a quiet surrounding. @Chriull, Thanks ! You're right. When I turn on the "music system" only (smaller button with green LED light ring around it), the KS says "Hello Kingsong" and then I can hear a soft purr that looks like a small quiet fan running all the time. So, my KS's fan is not defective... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addwyn Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 4 hours ago, SlowMo said: This could be a single issue of a defective mainboard and not the design in general @SlowMo, Yes, it could ! But as my wheel works absolutely normally otherwise and therefore there is no visible sign to permit to distinguish a defective mainboard from a well working mainboard, the problem would remain exactly the same for all of you : You can not know if you also have a "defective mainboard" or not ! So the risk stay present ... Personally I think your assumption is something like "please, make my wish to be the reality" That would be great if that was so simple. But I'm not concince that this is the reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMo Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 13 minutes ago, Addwyn said: @SlowMo, Yes, it could ! But as my wheel works absolutely normally otherwise and therefore there is no visible sign to permit to distinguish a defective mainboard from a well working mainboard, the problem would remain exactly the same for all of you : You can not know if you also have a "defective mainboard" or not ! So the risk stay present ... Personally I think your assumption is something like "please, make my wish to be the reality" That would be great if that was so simple. But I'm not concince that this is the reality. Then I guess we have to wait further to hear other people get overheated mainboards and shutdowns. Why do these manufacturers sell their units even though they were not thoroughly tried and tested in different conditions and letting the end users do the beta testing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 50 minutes ago, Henrik Olsen said: do we know what the threshold is for overheat? fan kicks in at 50C? but does it overheat? You are the one who has direct contact with KS China and since you don't know, that kind of scares me. This is how I think SHOULD be: E.g. a clear procedure for control board temperature 1. 50C - the fan turns on; 2. 70C - sound warning; 3. 75C - soft tiltback; 4. 80C - hard tiltback. If we do not have similar procedure written in the factory instructions that means IMO two things: 1. Mere omission due to immature company marketing; 2. Keeping procedures intentionally in the "fog" in order always to have an option to avoid responsibility and blame the client of wrongdoings and wheel abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addwyn Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 15 minutes ago, SlowMo said: Then I guess we have to wait further to hear other people get overheated mainboards and shutdowns. Why do these manufacturers sell their units even though they were not thoroughly tried and tested in different conditions and letting the end users do the beta testing? Yes, manufacturers should have the wheels passed a test bench to stimulate the most extreme conditions and check that the gradual process of stopping the wheel is safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addwyn Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 19 minutes ago, DS said: You are the one who has direct contact with KS China and since you don't know, that kind of scares me. This is how I think SHOULD be: E.g. a clear procedure for control board temperature 1. 50C - the fan turns on; 2. 70C - sound warning; 3. 75C - soft tiltback; 4. 80C - hard tiltback. If we do not have similar procedure written in the factory instructions that means IMO two things: 1. Mere omission due to immature company marketing; 2. Keeping procedures intentionally in the "fog" in order always to have an option to avoid responsibility and blame the client of wrongdoings and wheel abuse. And, as well, I'd like to know what the BMS's "over-current protection" can induce and what conditions can trigger it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 13 minutes ago, Addwyn said: And, as well, I'd like to know what the BMS's "over-current protection" can induce and what conditions can trigger it... Right, similar procedures could be applied to all factors that cause the so dangerous cutoff...well..am I dreaming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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