Gunthor Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 My new Kingsong arrived today and I hate the noise (when reading this kindly remember that I am a Ninebot One owner...)!!! Especially when riding around 15 Km/h there is a high pitched noise that is ringing in the ears. Always when getting close to people I wanted to hide like "I am not the one aggravating and molesting you with this tinnitus like sound emissions on purpose". I am afraid that the sound is created by the engine because the faster I ride the louder the nuisance. The new app crashes quite often. Firmware update is inconsistent: I updated from version 1.13 to 1.16. After the update the display still shows current firmware version 1.13!!! OK - I switched Kingsong off and on again, restarted the app and then it displayed current firmware version 1.15 new firmware 1.16!!! I didn't monitor the update so I thought something went wrong and I missed an error message. So I repeated the steps and wanted to upgrade from 1.15 to 1.16. However, no error showed up and the current version is still 1.15. I think that there probably was a buggy 1.16 version that got replaced with the previous 1.15 version and I can most likely consider myself lucky to not have gotten the 1.16 version... The app does not offer a downgrade option - but this was to be anticipated. The auxiliary button is for switching on and off Bluetooth - this is what the manual claims this button should do! First I thought this is a good thing because I rarely monitor my unicycle using the app while riding. However, when I switch off Bluetooth and turn on the EUC via the Power on button Bluetooth is switched on as well. So the use of the auxiliary button is reduced to switching the lights on and off and offering an alternative to switch on and off Bluetooth when the EUC is not moving. I would have preferred the opposite: Switching off Bluetooth when riding. The fan of the control board The engine sounds like the ball bearings are already broken. Here is a sound sample: Fan_of_the_control_board.mp3 Update: Jason McNeil was correct on this one: The fan turns on at 50°C! The "broken ball bearings" sound is coming from the engine and are torque “bursts” causing minute flexings within the wheel resulting as audible “ticking” noise!!! The pedals are very stiff. You feel like a jerk when struggling to get the pedals aligned to the case at the entrance of a shop with people watching you. Same thing when you take off: I liked to start riding with one foot on one of the pedals while nonchalantly pulling out the other pedal with the other foot. With Kingsong this is not possible. Starts and stops are clumsy. Today I only rode about 6 Km and must say that the Kingsong didn't always react as I expected. It seems to be balanced differently compared to the Ninebot One - but I think this is something I will get used to (see also point 4 of the good things). The manual is a good laugh: It says "Do not ride in [...] wet conditions" and later on "Don't store the unicycle in dry condition". Some sentences need to be read twice in order to be understood. But Pidgin-English is a minor flaw... The app displays a loudspeaker icon on the first screen that appears when starting the app. However I can neither turn off the beeps nor adjust the sound level. The Kingsong only beeps when clicking on it. Update: The side LEDs can't be turned off and you cannot choose any other pattern - there is only one default. Update: The odometer is working incorrectly. When I got the Kingsong, the odometer of the app displayed 96 Km. Then I made three trips: 6 Km, then 34 Km and then 52 Km. So guess what the total odometer displays now... 188 Km? No! It shows 116 Km!!! Now if 20 Km on the odometer equal real 92 Km then others have driven my "new" Kingsong EUC for (92 x 96 / 20 = ) 442 Km before it was sent to me!!! Now I wonder if I got a refurbished test EUC?!? The day following the odometer was working correctly and showed 166 Km at the end of the day. The day after the odometer displayed only 81 Km!!! Now this needs to be remedied quickly, because owners of this wheel need to correctly state the Km driven when reselling the wheel (also updating to firmware 1.16 does not do the trick) Update: The "Play" mode is not as rock solid as the 9b1. While riding the wheel the pedals gently wobble back and forth a little. This not disturbing but doesn't create the confidence the 9b1 can offer. Update (12.6.2016): Pedals are missing a drainage. So when they get submerged and are filled with water the water will only flow out slowly when parking wheel and pedals in an upright position. I invite users who already experienced the Kingsong KS-16A to share their first impressions as well. My highest concern is the ringing noise while riding. This is driving me nuts... Oh - I nearly forgot: The good thing about this wheel is You can drive circles single legged in both directions without hearing any scraping sounds. My Ninebot One needed a washer - the Kingsong seems to be well built. Update: The position of the pedals is very good: With 9b1 the blood circulation within my feet was an issue after 1 1/2 to 2 hours ride. With the Kingsong I can drive 3 hours in one go without this issue. Update: When riding with business shoes the rubber surface of the pedals offer fantastic grip - also when it's raining! On the 9b1 this always felt slippy. Update: The engine power is great and driving with 22-25 Km/h is really wonderful. Update: With two battery packs the KS16 is balanced more evenly compared to the 9b1. So 9b1 riders that got used to work against the inferior 9b1 balance (only 1 battery pack on one side) finally (need to) learn how to ride properly when switching to Kingsong. This is irritating at the start but pays off when riding with higher speeds. Update: The tyre can easily be inflated because the valve is accessible (no obstruction). Update: Easier cleaning beneath the handle (can be pulled up) and at the wheel and rim. Update: This is an obvious one and the reason I bought the wheel. With 800 Watt you have a lot more power in reserve. I got used to driving the 9b1 at its limit so there is nearly no reserve in risky situations resulting in tense and dangerous driving behavior! With the KS16 you have enough power between you feet and riding it is pure joy (if there wouldn't be this high pitched whining noise...). Update: The integrated retractable trolley bar comes in handy when visiting mid-sized shops: Within huge building supplies stores I still love to use the EUC in order to get to the far away shelves quicker. I never carry the EUC into tiny shops like bakeries and leave it outside leaning it against the wall. However mid-sized shops always have been a problem because using the EUC there feels awkward (because of the small aisles and many people) and carrying it is a burden. So the option having a trolley bar to push the EUC around is a solution I like very much. Also I got stopped once by our factory security officer asking me not to use the EUC after passing the turnstile and being on the factory ground. The building I work in is far away from the turnstile so here again the retractable trolley bar is a wonderful solution. Nevertheless I'd like to mention that the trolley bar is not high enough when traveling on another EUC and transferring the KS16 by simply holding the extended handle in one of your hands (I had a strenuous 18 Km ride).Update (17.04.2017): One of the telescope bars is not functioning any longer. Within the last 2-3 months this bar didn't always lock itself correctly when pushing the handle down. So I used more force (that worked for a while) but now it doesn't lock at all anymore (I still have warranty and my vendor is sending me the replacement part for free). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 @Gunthor good feedback. Can you record an audio track of the noise/frequency? Did you find the fan is enabled only while riding after a certain amount of time, or is it on all the time? Flaky App & poor quality manual can be easily remedied. Still, it looks like there a couple areas for improvement. @Henrik Olsen what are you thoughts on these issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Olsen Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 True, and it's quite noticeable coming from a Ninebot... I'm used to it from KS14c and it does not bother me anymore, it's like a KingSong signature.. Can't comment on that I'am iOS user, and that is not out yet.. Can't comment on that I'am iOS user, and that is not out yet.. That's a preference choice... My fan is fine, but it do run all the time... I only hear it indoor with the wheel turned on... The fan in my opinion is small price to pay if it can help prevent mosfet burnouts seen by other brands. Yes, the pedal lock are very stiff... I need to look into getting the adjusted.. a magnet solution might have been better... There is no doubt the ridestyle of the KingSong is different... Have you unlocked it yet? It took me a while to get used to it, as you have to lean a lot harder to unleash the full potential... Don't worry about that part, you will like it a lot eventually as the wheel feels super stable at any speed, even 30km/h...... Never uses it... Manuals are for girls... @Jason McNeil can confirm I had trouble in the beginning coming from a 9b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 35 minutes ago, Henrik Olsen said: Never uses it... Manuals are for girls... 36 minutes ago, Henrik Olsen said: My fan is fine, but it do run all the time... I only hear it indoor with the wheel turned on... The fan in my opinion is small price to pay if it can help prevent mosfet burnouts seen by other brands. They told me it was programmed only to turn on at 50°C, wonder if this will be sorted out in an upcoming firmware release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Olsen Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 14 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: They told me it was programmed only to turn on at 50°C, wonder if this will be sorted out in an upcoming firmware release. Yes, I think it can ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 45 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: They told me it was programmed only to turn on at 50°C, wonder if this will be sorted out in an upcoming firmware release. Wouldnt change a thing for me - i only ride above 50 C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 4 hours ago, Gunthor said: My new Kingsong arrived today and I hate the noise!!! Especially when riding around 15 Km/h there is a high pitched noise that is ringing in the ears. Always when getting close to people I wanted to hide like "I am not the one aggravating and molesting you with this tinnitus like sound emissions on purpose". I am afraid that the sound is created by the engine because the faster I ride the louder the nuisance. @Gunthor How old are you? It may be that your hearing is still really good, don't worry that won't last forever. There are some sample tones at http://www.ultrasonic-ringtones.com/ and the best I can do is 14.9KHz now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 3 hours ago, dmethvin said: There are some sample tones at http://www.ultrasonic-ringtones.com/ and the best I can do is 14.9KHz now. Funny...thanks to my better right ear I hear up to 21.1Khz and the site verdict is: You are a dog Or maybe you are a mosquito, you certainly can't be human. I'm 49y+4m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasi Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 I can hear 12 kHz ???. I am 55. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwin_rm Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 Using my phone I could clearly hear up to 16.7 KHz. I am 30 yrs old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 I can hear 17.5 but not 18 or higher. I am 42 i actually stop hearing it around 14khz and then start again at 15, but after 15 the way i hear it the pitch is going down with frequency increase., then stop hearing around 17.9. Not sure how to explain the reversed pitch direction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetMeatNYC Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 I cant hear the 15, I'm 37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 Wow, guys...I will start barking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 16 hours ago, DS said: Funny...thanks to my better right ear I hear up to 21.1Khz and the site verdict is: You are a dog Or maybe you are a mosquito, you certainly can't be human. I'm 49y+4m You dont look like a dog, but This means that you might be an alien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addwyn Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 On 04/08/2016 at 10:50 PM, Gunthor said: 3. Firmware update is inconsistent: I updated from version 1.13 to 1.16. After the update the display still shows current firmware version 1.13!!! OK - I switched Kingsong off and on again, restarted the app and then it displayed current firmware version 1.15 new firmware 1.16!!! I didn't monitor the update so I thought something went wrong and I missed an error message. So I repeated the steps and wanted to upgrade from 1.15 to 1.16. However, no error showed up and the current version is still 1.15. I think that there probably was a buggy 1.16 version that got replaced with the previous 1.15 version and I can most likely consider myself lucky to not have gotten the 1.16 version... 5. The fan of the control board sounds like the ball bearings are already broken. It is exactly similar here with my new KS16a wheel :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addwyn Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 On 8/4/2016 at 10:50 PM, Gunthor said: I invite users who already experienced the Kingsong KS-16A to share their first impressions as well. The Voice promts On/Off setting and the Front&Rear Lights On/Off setting are not memorized. They come back to defaults each time the wheel is turned On (Running mode setting and speed alarm levels settings are kept in persistent memory). There is a low but continuous very high-pitched and rather unpleasant electronic whistling when the wheel is powered (like having tinnitus). I was hoping that it would not be annoying outdoor, but Gunthor says that's worst !!! The side LEDs can't be turned off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addwyn Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 On 8/4/2016 at 10:50 PM, Gunthor said: 9. The app displays a loudspeaker icon on the first screen that appears when starting the app. However I can neither turn off the beeps nor adjust the sound level. The Kingsong only beeps when clicking on it. I agree. That's simply a horn icon (for honking like a car). The beeps/voice's sound level can't be adjusted. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuts Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Back when @Kevin Lee was testing the KS16 and filmed it at the Hong Kong Electronics Fair I always thought the noise it made was really loud as if someone was vacuuming in the back ground. Is it due to the new tech that is used or is it just a brand signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunthor Posted April 10, 2016 Author Share Posted April 10, 2016 I confirm what Addwyn noticed: The side LEDs can't be turned off. As for the whistling / vacuuming / tinnitus noise: I couldn't wait and unleashed the full potential (Many "Thank Yous" to fearedbliss and esaj) today. I dared to drive 28Km/h and I think this high pitch noise does not get loader than when driving 15 Km/h. Sometimes there was a side wind an I couldn't hear the noise then. However when there are buildings on the left and right I perceive this noise as very disturbing. Indoors you can hear it in a totally silent room simply when switching on the wheel. Outdoors I need to start driving in order to perceive it. Are there any EUC riders out there having experience with different 800Watt EUCs (e.g. Gotway,...)? I wonder if this is a 800Watt EUC issue or something only Kingsong has... 16 hours ago, Addwyn said: The Voice promts On/Off setting and the Front&Rear Lights On/Off setting are not memorized. They come back to defaults each time the wheel is turned On (Running mode setting and speed alarm levels settings are kept in persistent memory). Can't confirm this one. After the firmware update this setting was gone. But once set it is memorized. Do you use the new app Addwyn? @dmethvin, I will be 48 soon and cannot hear the 14.9KHz. I believe the pitch Kingsong emanates is around 10 KHz but this is most likely a poor guess. @Henrik Olsen, I noticed my fan is very quiet when the wheel is not moving - as soon as the wheel moves my fan issues those "out of order ball bearing" noises. So "Yes" the fan is always on but seems to be powered differently when moving... How fast can you ride uphill? I continue to crawl up on a 17% incline probably because I don't dare to lean forward any harder (I love my body and my EUC and don't want to harm them). I did this with my Ninebot once and without giving any kind of warning beeps it simply stalled giving me a faceplant! Will the Kingsong give warning singnals before you reach its limit so that users will know that e.g. 12 Km/h is the fastest you could dare with a certain incline...? One more thing: The app displayed this morning that I could continue to ride 27 Km (680Wh fully charged)! After riding 34Km the app displays that I still can ride another 15 Km. So at first I was afraid if I got the correct battery - now I think I have 680Wh even though I don't know how to verify this one without opening the case. The manual (last page) says "the battery can't be dismantled[...], in case of changing please contact us". Changing the battery on a Ninebot One is a piece of cake. Did someone open up the Kingsong KS-16A who may be able tell us if this manual instruction is a hoax? I cannot believe that you need extra special Kingsong tools in order replace the battery... Auxiliary button: I like the auxiliary button only because of what could be done with it in the future. Like a camera with custom buttons that you can program yourself (what it should do) I think EUC riders need custom buttons too. Functions that come to mind are: Press it once in order to limit speed to 6 Km/h. Then EUCs in Germany can adhere to local law in order to ride them in pedestrian streets (and pressing a button is a lot more conveniant than fumbling out your moblie,...). Press it another time and revert it back to the normal custom speed settings. Lock the wheel (like the Ninebot One app locking function) when parking the wheel outside of e.g. a bakery. Unlocking has to be done through the app then. Could be a dangerous one if you don't carry your smartphone with you... Honk - for those riding around without a finger bell and the ability to ride seated or doing squats while riding. Switching the lights on and off. Do you remember the three questions I asked (this post got longer than I anticipated...)? BTW I edited my first post as well... take a look at point 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry71 Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 @Gunthor two batteries - one on each side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 There's an Android App called 'Advanced Spectrum'. Looks like it's emitting three individual frequencies (this applies to the 14C 800W), 6kHz, 12kHz & 16kHz. When the Wheel is unloaded, 6kHz is dominate, but under load 12kHz is & to a lesser extent 16kHz. Maybe this is the reason why some dogs go mental at the sight (sound) of the Wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunthor Posted April 10, 2016 Author Share Posted April 10, 2016 @Дмитрий Дмитрий Thank you for the pix. It is the first time I see a dismantled KS16. Now I understand why I had difficulties getting used to the wheel. The 9b1 has only one battery pack (on the right side I think). With two battery packs the KS16 is balanced more evenly. So in fact within the last year I got used to work against the inferior 9b1 balance and now switching to Kingsong I need to learn how to ride properly... @Jason McNeil Awesome!!! You are my man!!! I hope I will be able to repeat this with the KS16 on the next weekend but I'd expect to also find similar spikes. I got a dog-bite last year when riding my 9b1 - today I passed about 30 dogs and none of them went 'mental' - perhaps because of the frequencies...? Maybe someone with a non-Kingsong 800W EUC would be so kind to repeat Jasons 'Advanced Spectrum' test? Then we are getting closer to an educated guess if it is a proprietary Kingsong or a general 800W issue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 52 minutes ago, Gunthor said: Maybe someone with a non-Kingsong 800W EUC would be so kind to repeat Jasons 'Advanced Spectrum' test? Then we are getting closer to an educated guess if it is a proprietary Kingsong or a general 800W issue... It could be the PWM-frequency + some harmonics. I'll have to see if I can plug the "naked" Firewheel-mainboard into the motor some day and get readings from the PWM-signal with an oscilloscope (my Rigol has some frequency analyzing capabilities with FFT, but I doubt it will be even nearly as precise as a real spectrum analyzer). I doubt motor wattage has much to do with it, likely the motor wiring/coils or something oscillates with the pulses causing an audible sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 I installed Advanced Spectrum but don't see any peaks on my Firewheel graph. Not sure where Jason's phone was in relation to the wheel, I was leaning down and holding the phone near the wheel while accelerating and decelerating. The only sound I hear is the "whine" that changes frequency with the speed of the wheel. There is no sound at all from the wheel when it's stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 31 minutes ago, dmethvin said: There is no sound at all from the wheel when it's stopped. Might be a KS/GW phenomenon with the 800W class of motor: the whine is pretty discernible . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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