24 posts in this topic

IPS_121_Rating.thumb.png.d7150f0bff093df

Background: When IPS first released the 121/122 series at the end of 2014, I have to admit that I was initially underwhelmed by it because of the large overlap with the existing 131/132 series. I didn't believe there would be much value in adding it to the WheelGo.com product line. Since then, we have had a chance to evaluate it in much more detail & am pleased to report that there are exceptional features that make it standout from the Wheel crowd. 

Ride-quality/Power/Acceleration: the ride-quality is really very good, even a tad better than the superb 132. Ride-quality is defined as the predictability during acceleration/braking, how well the control-board smooths out irregularities of the riding surface, pedal stability giving you that sense of assurance that the Wheel is not going to misbehave on you, & providing that sense of confidence in the Wheel. The control-board is setup to provide progressive tilt-back-back, allowing the rider to comfortably maintain a cruising speed of around 11mph, beyond this it becomes physically very difficult (impossible) to apply more acceleration—comparing the to the 132, I would say that the pedal-tilt-back is calibrated to be slightly more aggressive.

The motor is configured for high-torque, which provides outstanding continuous power delivery; in our testing, about 40% more than the 132. High-torque is best suited for Wheelers in hilly/mountainous terrain. The drawback of high-torque motors is that they are more sensitive to hard-acceleration,  more so than the 132. A 16" diameter Wheel is still very nimble, easily able to weave in & out of a heavily congested environment. In a standardized range test, we were able to achieve just 16 over miles at a high average cruising speed of 10.1mph—the track had a slight elevation in it, if tested on a running track, then another 1-2miles would probably have been possible.  

Build quality/Weight/Aesthetics: build quality is exceptionally good, quite possibly the best of any Wheel being sold today. Uniquely, the control-board is packaged in a sealed aluminum structure that protects the sensitive electronics from dirt or contamination that might find its way in the housing. The 121 also boasts an impressive 12 MOSFETS—these provide the motor with the oomph for getting up those extreme gradients—double the usually amount of most Wheels. Comparing the external shell plastic to the Ninebot & IPS132, the casing is of a higher scratch-resistant hard poly-carbonate than the ABS-PC material used on the other Wheels. Because of the slightly wider dimensions, I found that the supplied padding is welcome addition to the side panels. Aesthetically, she may be not be to everyone's taste, but I think it has an appealing utilitarian rugged no-frills look to it. It contains 32x Sony US18650NC1 cells each with 2,900mAh for a combined rated capacity of 350Wh. These cells can deliver 10A each, so as a pack, is more than capable of sustaining the 1,000W manufacturer rated output. It weighs in at 13.5kg, which is about 200gm less than the Ninebot E, but 1.5kg more than the 132.   

Conclusion: the IPS121 is well thought-out & designed Wheel with some unique capabilities that sets it apart from the competition. If you live in location with lots of hills, or just need a reliable decent Wheel with exceptionally good range, then this may be your ticket. We will be introducing the IP121/T350 at £595, inclusive of VAT for a limited time. If you live in Western Europe, the shipping costs are very economical with a flat rate of £17. 

Extreme Hill Climb Test, featuring Tim Duffett, 95kg. He's the chap who commutes 20miles a day on his Wheel! It's really a 20° gradient, deceptively less because of GoPro's wide-angle lens.

Wheel in White

IPS_121W-_Side_-_LR.thumb.jpg.bc279fafb6

IPS Control-board housing

IPS121_Control-board.thumb.jpg.3d95a9422

Unique control-board with an amazing number of MOSFETs

IPS121_MOSFETs.thumb.jpg.8294e3623b00b0a

GPS range test

IPS_121_Testing.thumb.png.f8e7a535906bc6

 

Edited by Jason McNeil
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Good review, lots of details and well tested. Only nit-picking I have is the claim 'the best range of any 16" wheel on the market', as I'd expect a 16" Firewheel with 528Wh or 779Wh batteries would have a longer range. But I admit that IPS production quality is superior compared to the Firewheel (straight out of the factory) and is probably a far better choice for people who don't want to caulk and replace parts by themselves ;)

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Same comment as @esaj re the Firewheel, which probably has better range but is much sketchier in build quality. Did you do a battery range test? I'd think a 350Wh battery could get you 30 to 35km. I'm glad I just got a F260 because I don't need longer range between charges and those batteries are heavy! Carrying this thing up/down to a subway platform for a few hundred feet is enough exercise for me.

The 121 seems like a well-built wheel but for example on aesthetics I'd give it much lower marks. Except for the big IPS logo it looks like any other generic square-boxes-on-each-side wheel. Let's push manufacturers to really build something that looks nice!

On hill climbing ability, once I became good at riding I never had a hill or ramp that was too steep to climb with either my Firewheel or my generic 14. This includes a bicycle ramp that is about 35 degrees. I'm a little on the light side at 70kg so that probably helps, but even so that underlines the importance of giving the weight of the rider on these tests.

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Dooh, of course you're right about F779 has more juice than the 121, edit in progress... Thanks for the comments!

Edited by Jason McNeil
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Can I ask directly how big are the pedals. They look smallish to me. (Size 46 shoes)

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Dang! Apart from the pedal-size and the sort-of Russian concrete-massivism design, this would be a candidate for me.

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Pedal size is perfectly normal, agree that the styling inspiration is something out of the Soviet Union. IPS actually compares the T series to soviet tanks  :lol:

 

Edited by Jason McNeil
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IPS_121_Rating.thumb.png.d7150f0bff093df

Background: When IPS first released the 121/122 series at the end of 2014, I have to admit that I was initially underwhelmed by it because of the large overlap with the existing 131/132 series. I didn't believe there would be much value in adding it to the WheelGo.com product line. Since then, we have had a chance to evaluate it in much more detail & am pleased to report that there are exceptional features that make it standout from the Wheel crowd. 

Ride-quality/Power/Acceleration: the ride-quality is really very good, even a tad better than the superb 132. Ride-quality is defined as the predictability during acceleration/braking, how well the control-board smooths out irregularities of the riding surface, pedal stability giving you that sense of assurance that the Wheel is not going to misbehave on you, & providing that sense of confidence in the Wheel. The control-board is setup to provide progressive tilt-back-back, allowing the rider to comfortably maintain a cruising speed of around 11mph, beyond this it becomes physically very difficult (impossible) to apply more acceleration—comparing the to the 132, I would say that the pedal-tilt-back is calibrated to be slightly more aggressive.

The motor is configured for high-torque, which provides outstanding continuous power delivery; in our testing, about 40% more than the 132. High-torque is best suited for Wheelers in hilly/mountainous terrain. The drawback of high-torque motors is that they are more sensitive to hard-acceleration,  more so than the 132. A 16" diameter Wheel is still very nimble, easily able to weave in & out of a heavily congested environment. In a standardized range test, we were able to achieve just 16 over miles at a high average cruising speed of 10.1mph—the track had a slight elevation in it, if tested on a running track, then another 1-2miles would probably have been possible.  

Build quality/Weight/Aesthetics: build quality is exceptionally good, quite possibly the best of any Wheel being sold today. Uniquely, the control-board is packaged in a sealed aluminum structure that protects the sensitive electronics from dirt or contamination that might find its way in the housing. The 121 also boasts an impressive 12 MOSFETS—these provide the motor with the oomph for getting up those extreme gradients—double the usually amount of most Wheels. Comparing the external shell plastic to the Ninebot & IPS132, the casing is of a higher scratch-resistant hard poly-carbonate than the ABS-PC material used on the other Wheels. Because of the slightly wider dimensions, I found that the supplied padding is welcome addition to the side panels. Aesthetically, she may be not be to everyone's taste, but I think it has an appealing utilitarian rugged no-frills look to it. It contains 32x Sony US18650NC1 cells each with 2,900mAh for a combined rated capacity of 350Wh. These cells can deliver 10A each, so as a pack, is more than capable of sustaining the 1,000W manufacturer rated output. It weighs in at 13.5kg, which is about 200gm less than the Ninebot E, but 1.5kg more than the 132.   

Conclusion: the IPS121 is well thought-out & designed Wheel with some unique capabilities that sets it apart from the competition. If you live in location with lots of hills, or just need a reliable decent Wheel with exceptionally good range, then this may be your ticket. We will be introducing the IP121/T350 at £595, inclusive of VAT for a limited time. If you live in Western Europe, the shipping costs are very economical with a flat rate of £17. 

Extreme Hill Climb Test, featuring Tim Duffett, 95kg. He's the chap who commutes 20miles a day on his Wheel! It's really a 20° gradient, deceptively less because of GoPro's wide-angle lens.

Wheel in White

IPS_121W-_Side_-_LR.thumb.jpg.bc279fafb6

IPS Control-board housing

IPS121_Control-board.thumb.jpg.3d95a9422

Unique control-board with an amazing number of MOSFETs

IPS121_MOSFETs.thumb.jpg.8294e3623b00b0a

GPS range test

IPS_121_Testing.thumb.png.f8e7a535906bc6

 

​YES, it's one of the cool unicycles that I have ever riden, just for several times, it's really powerful and the climbing capacity is strong, no need to worry about climbing on a little steep slope. I love it!

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It is a good wheel.

Edited by Luiz
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I've been selling 50+ of these wheels - predominantly 260Wh versions. Many happy customers and very few issues.

This wheel is indeed one of the early hidden gems among 2014's ewheels having huge torque and allowing very dynamic driving and breaking. IPS has locked the speed to 19km/h though this setup would easily allow 25 km/h. This is one of the few ewheels that can be truely recommended to >90 kg drivers. It appears a bit simple but it has all you need. The only safety aspect might be the low case which can hit the ground when pushing the limits (e.g. accelerating when climbing). Low pedals can grind the ground but that can be controlled with foot position slightly outwards allowing you to anticipate the grind moment. The low standing height makes part of the  fun riding XP with this wheel.

What makes this wheel unique is that it allows you strongly leaning forward and backwards. Mini-slalom and accelerations are much more fun than many other performance wheels driving completely stiff (MSuper, GR16 etc.), which makes sense above 20km/h but sacrifices driving fun at lower speeds.

Unfortunately, this wheel is kind of out-dated and there is little Marketing for IPS.
IPS was the 2nd manufacturer of unicycles after Solowheel. They produce very good quality. They do thorough product design and deserve much more attention. I predict they will be one of the brands that will sustain for more years in this very dynamic market.

 

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I've been selling 50+ of these wheels - predominantly 260Wh versions. Many happy customers and very few issues.

This wheel is indeed one of the early hidden gems among 2014's ewheels having huge torque and allowing very dynamic driving and breaking. IPS has locked the speed to 19km/h though this setup would easily allow 25 km/h. This is one of the few ewheels that can be truely recommended to >90 kg drivers. It appears a bit simple but it has all you need. The only safety aspect might be the low case which can hit the ground when pushing the limits (e.g. accelerating when climbing). Low pedals can grind the ground but that can be controlled with foot position slightly outwards allowing you to anticipate the grind moment. The low standing height makes part of the  fun riding XP with this wheel.

What makes this wheel unique is that it allows you strongly leaning forward and backwards. Mini-slalom and accelerations are much more fun than many other performance wheels driving completely stiff (MSuper, GR16 etc.), which makes sense above 20km/h but sacrifices driving fun at lower speeds.

Unfortunately, this wheel is kind of out-dated and there is little Marketing for IPS.
IPS was the 2nd manufacturer of unicycles after Solowheel. They produce very good quality. They do thorough product design and deserve much more attention. I predict they will be one of the brands that will sustain for more years in this very dynamic market.

 

​You have a shop?  Where is it located?  I seem to recall you live in China?

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This wheel have never failed me so far.

Edited by Luiz
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From my experience with the T350 (340 Wh) i was impressed in the first months, because I had no experience with other EUs. I bought the T350 in 2014 and had in mind it's one of the strongest EUs. 

On longer slopes the IPS fails with overheating/ sudden shut off/ blocking and red blinking LED and beeping. The IPS will be handed over to the kids. If you like long distance and slop runs the IPS is not right for heavy weight people (90+ kg)

I wouldn't buy the IPS again. I had the wrong requirements in mind as I bought it. Requirements had been established after doing some nice trips with a loaned Gotway and a Firewheel F779 of a friend ;)

Ninenbot One model c: The Ninebot failed on my side because of heavy temperature problems of the motor and not enough power on slopes. The 9b1 starts beeping on a not so heavy slope in my test drive. Good enough for my wife and the kids ;)

Gotway MSuper: It'a a heavy driving machine. It goes about all terrain like a tank. The body is to heavy and it's not handy to drive small circles. The shell needs to be taped extremely as it's not strong enough. I know two people with totally broken shells or replaced shells. But I like the power and the battery capacity. 

Firewheel F779: Enough power on slopes (not comparable to MSuper), very good pedals, very agile on small circles, a good partner on long trips, small form factor compared to battery capacity. If the main board will be enhanced it will be an overall universal product.

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Maybe, but the the MSuper & F779 have four parallel packs of batteries so are in a completely different class. There is also the price consideration, the French distributor for the F779 has it listed for 1,700euros, which is more than double the price of T350, same is true for the MSuper.

In another thread this morning, you wrote:

I'm the nightmare for a EU manufacturer, as I'm 100+ kg. 

Agree that one needs reasonable expectations that the IPS121/T350 is not going to ferry you up to the top of Mount Blanc if you're 100+ kg, but for surmounting a 20-30m hill at a modest speed, sure no problem. 

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Maybe, but the the MSuper & F779 have four parallel packs of batteries so are in a completely different class. There is also the price consideration, the French distributor for the F779 has it listed for 1,700euros, which is more than double the price of T350, same is true for the MSuper.

Electro-sport.de lists F779 (and they have actually marked it as 680Wh, which is pretty near the REAL nominal capacity of the packs, the 779Wh figure is calculated using maximum cell voltage!) at 1449€, including taxes and shipping within Germany (so more with shipping if ordering from abroad). Not that cheap still, but still pretty big difference vs. France.

And yes, I'd expect the four parallel packs vs. one or two to make a pretty big difference in power, as the voltage sag should be much lower, due to less current required by pack.

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Really looking forward to your experience on the difference these four packs will have on the handling/sustained-power delivery & range. Apart from the battery capacity, do you know if there any other distinctions between a F260 & the F779?  

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Really looking forward to your experience on the difference these four packs will have on the handling/sustained-power delivery & range. Apart from the battery capacity, do you know if there any other distinctions between a F260 & the F779?  

Yeah, I'm sure to test it a lot with hill climbing and acceleration once I get the packs and install them. I was also thinking of getting a voltage display, like this, a display with high enough voltage-range, at least one decimal after the point and which can draw its own power from the wires being measured, so I don't have to cook up any separate circuitry for powering it. Probably will need some switch in between, so I can turn the display off and not let it suck the batteries empty when not riding.

I'm not sure, but I think the parts are the same between the models except for the battery packs. From what I've gathered, the F528 and F779 both have 4 packs, but they've wired four 4S4P -packs behind one single BMS which is in one of the packs (this comes from what hobby16 has told about the F528 and the picture Michael Vu posted in Facebook of the F779-pack). At least in F260 (and probably F132), the secondary PCB is placed in one of the two empty battery compartments, I don't know where they stick it in F528 or F779, personally I moved it into the mainboard compartment when I took the Firewheel apart (pictures available here: http://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/613-firewheel-pcbs-connectors-battery-wiring-older-gen/?do=findComment&comment=5640), it barely fit with the main board moved backwards close to the edge of the metal plate. I asked Vee, and he said the replacement board came like that, already moved in the metal plate, so I suspect it was originally meant for F528 or F779, and I think they do the same with the secondary PCB.

Edited by esaj
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Cool. In an unmodified form, do you know what the peak power rating of the single BMS that is packaged with the F779? Do Vee73 test this? 

Edited by Jason McNeil
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Cool. In an unmodified form, do you know what the peak power rating of the single BMS that is packaged with the F779? Do Vee73 test this? 

Vee73 only had the F260 I now own, not the bigger versions. For Gotway, he has more batteries in parallel (don't know how many, but I recall him once saying it's around 900Wh total), but I've understood that those are LiPo-packs without BMSs, and he has special chargers for them that handle balancing etc. I don't know enough about batteries and haven't ever seen the packs for F528 or F779 in real life, so I can't say really anything about the peak power of the 4 packs. The F779 packing has the markings "16S4P  60V 11,6Ah" (So 696Wh at nominal 60V, and to be precise, the actual nominal voltage is something like 16 * 3,7 = 59,2V, so around 686,72Wh), this is the picture of the (unopened) pack that Michael Vu posted: https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/10014829_10106334366849930_139531250274828951_o.jpg 

My best guess it that the packs between F528 and F779 are similar, but the F779 uses higher capacity cells, the F528 is (probably) done with the same Sony US18650V3's (around 2200mAh) as the 264Wh packs in F260  =>   60V * 2,2Ah * 4 packs = 528Wh. The V3's should be capable of giving continuous discharge of 10A (although some sites list it as below 5A continuous?), don't know the max pulse. 

For F779, the cell capacity must be around 2900mAh (11,6Ah / 4 = 2,9Ah), but don't know what the actual cell brand or model is (haven't seen any pictures of opened F779 battery pack). I also cannot tell if the BMS limits the maximum continuous discharge (how much current can the components of a single BMS withstand, even if the cells were capable of providing around 40A total? Can it trigger overcurrent protection of the discharge side?).

 @hobby16 has been working on some Firewheels, and remote instructing people on the shunt. Here's one of his posts in http://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/352-firewheel/#comment-3635 

The F528 has a 16S4P battery made of 4 packs of 4S4P in series. Two packs are in the left housing, and two packs (one containing the BMS) are in the right housing. Mark my words if, when you decide to shunt your BMS. Remember that even with a big battery, even with the battery nearly fully charged, the F528 still has the cutoff problem.

A guy has had his shoulder broken because of it : the triggering factors was cold temperatures + climbing a hill. He is now ok with a shunted BMS, his mod pictures here : http://trottinetteselectriques.heberg-forum.fr/sutra19456_solution-probleme-bms.html#19456

As a side not, IMHO, splitting the battery in four separate packs is a horrible engineering choice since it means at lot lot lot of wires to link the cells to the BMS for equilibration. It's a nightmare for assembly, for service and for reliability.

Maybe he can tell you more about the peak power and other things about the BMSs and the 4-pack versions.

Edited by esaj
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Pedal size 20cm x 12.5cm which is pretty standard. 

Actually Jason for some unkown reason a few  wheels dont have 20cm long pedals.

Despite Gotway having 20cm long pedals on the M18 and even the diminutive M10 they only have 18.5cm long pedals on the MCM which I swapped out for the 20cm ones that were on my cheap generic wheel. I also noticed when Adrian and Toby Stevens came over with their Airwheel that both Toby's 14" and Adrian's 16" X8 had 18.5cm long pedals as well. Not at all comfortable to ride for anyone with normal size feet! :)

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Actually Jason for some unkown reason a few  wheels dont have 20cm long pedals.

Despite Gotway having 20cm long pedals on the M18 and even the diminutive M10 they only have 18.5cm long pedals on the MCM which I swapped out for the 20cm ones that were on my cheap generic wheel. I also noticed when Adrian and Toby Stevens came over with their Airwheel that both Toby's 14" and Adrian's 16" X8 had 18.5cm long pedals as well. Not at all comfortable to ride for anyone with normal size feet! :)

took an independent measurement of the pedals on a Gotway MCMs2 here: 16.9cm x 12.6cm ! (The red "paddings" have a width of 16cm) Are they really selling MCMs with different pedal sizes? 

Any idea where I could order larger pedals that fit?

Edited by Niko
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took an independent measurement of the pedals on a Gotway MCM2s here: 16.9cm x 12.6cm ! (The red "paddings" have a width of 16cm) Are they really selling MCMs with different pedal sizes? 

Any idea where I could order larger pedals that fit?

If the bolts/axles match, or you could make ones that match, I'd expect Ninebot One or Firewheel pedals to be the most comfortable ones (of course I have no experience except with Firewheel & the 14" generic, but the Firewheel pedals beat the living crap out of the middle split-type pedals on the 14" when it comes to ride comfortability). Maybe ask the manufacturer if they would sell the pedals to you directly? Shouldn't even be that expensive, they're just pieces of aluminum (or maybe steel on Firewheel?), and being mass produced, probably among the cheapest parts of the wheel.

At least Speedy Feet from UK seems to sell Ninebot pedals:

http://www.speedyfeet.uk/Ninebot-ONE-Footplate-Complete-p/ninebot-one-footplate.htm   The pedal

http://www.speedyfeet.uk/Replacement-footplate-bar-Ninebot-ONE-p/ninebot-one-bar.htm The axle

But you need the dimensions to check that they match (axle diameter & length), and maybe some washers to fill any empty space between the axle-hole in the pedal frame (the metal part that comes from the motor axle downwards, that the pedals are attached to with the pedal axle).

 

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