WARNING KINGSONG PRODUCTS

[Vulkov]

Hey guys, I was supposed to be enjoying my time learning how to ride but unfortunately Kingsong has prevented me from doing so. I have tried EUC World but it just says it's unsupported after connecting and prompts me for a password. Tried the serial and variations of it as a password but it never worked. The only thing I haven't tried is a VPN but my bluetooth address is already attached to the serial of the wheel so I'm not sure if that's gonna work out.

Consider yourselves warned. Do not buy KINGSONG products from China resellers like AliExpress or similar or you will not get them unlocked. I never found out about this until I installed their app and it said it's perma-locked.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Vulkov
Wording

[Chriull]

Welcome @Vulkov!

Sorry to hear that - somehow KS fights their "war" with aliexpress resellers on the back of the customers

Afaik until now it was "just" reported that firmware updates are not possible...

I hope you are still in the buyer protection period with aliexpress, so you can return this wheel as not operational?

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by Chriull

[Vulkov]

6 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Welcome @Vulkov!

Sorry to hear that - somehow KS fights their "war" with aliexpress resellers on the back of the customers

Afaik until now it was "just" reported that firmware updates are not possible...

I hope you are still in the buyer protection period with aliexpress, so you can return this wheel as not operational?

 

Thank you!

I bought it from someone in the UK who bought it from Wheels Riders store in Aliexpress. He is currently in talks with them to see what we can do. Hopefully they can sort him for his money and he can refund me too.

[null]

Except if KS has indeed taken yet a step in their region locking scheme it could be bugs and server being down. You could try activate it with the official app or SoftTuner. Or wait a little in case it’s the servers.

I don’t particularly trust them as they build in such “features” but seem to have read them stating they wouldn’t brick wheels. (Previous time this “bug” happened)

edit: For the price they are taking, Ali sellers could very well sell international versions, it’s mostly cheating sales tax that make them cheaper. Eu sellers are already making a good margin AFAIK, Ali even more so as they buy cheaper.

(what I’m getting at is I wouldn’t refrain for bugging G&F, he’s making good margins selling wheels that have complications.)

Edited August 5, 2020 by null

[Vulkov]

3 minutes ago, null said:

Except if KS has indeed taken yet a step in their region locking scheme it could be bugs and server being down. You could try activate it with the official app or SoftTuner. Or wait a little in case it’s the servers.

I don’t particularly trust them as they build in such “features” but seem to have read them stating they didn’t plan to brick wheels.

According to my discusions with the official KS profile in Facebook they say they will not help me out because it was bought from Aliexpress apparently. The problem I have with that is that for new people getting into it just like me it is extremely hard to anticipate something like this if you don't get lucky and see a post like mine before going for it. That's why I'm spreading awareness as much as possible. Do I want to hurt their sales? Maybe because I'm pissed but mostly I just want for people to dodge a bullet unlike me.

[null]

Sure, never mind, I thought you where looking for a solution.
Just go ahead and spam the forum with your with your ALL CAPS vendetta. 
I wasn't defending Kingsong nor Ali sellers / chicway 🤷

Edited August 5, 2020 by null

[Planemo]

1 hour ago, Vulkov said:

I bought it from someone in the UK who bought it from Wheels Riders store in Aliexpress. He is currently in talks with them to see what we can do. Hopefully they can sort him for his money and he can refund me too.

I dont get this. If you bought it secondhand then I dont see how you cant get your money back immediately, as its not fit for purpose.

[Vulkov]

Just now, Planemo said:

I dont get this. If you bought it secondhand then I dont see how you cant get your money back immediately, as its not fit for purpose.

Hey mate, it was brand new. He was waiting for it for months before he got impatient and got another wheel and this one was surplus to him. I bought it since he also had a body armour included and it was a full package for 400 euro less than buying from a EU retailer. It was to save money but at the same time I had no idea that the wheel can be perma-locked just because it was purchased from aliexpress. 

[Planemo]

Ah right I see. Is he a ‘mate’? If yes, I definitely couldn't keep your money personally, even if I never got a cent back myself.

If no, was it via Ebay or similar?

I dunno, either way I wouldn’t really see it as my problem (as a buyer) if there was no mention by the seller that it was locked/non functional.

I have deliberately kept away from buying new KS wheels (if not purchased from a dealer in the UK) for exactly the problem you have had. I do feel for your seller (not you so much because I think you should get all your money back immediately) and I do get what you are saying about locking maybe not being common knowledge but by the same token I wouldn’t spend 1000’s of pounds on something from China that I had no idea about. I was reading up on this forum a fair while before I bought my first wheel, and I seem to remember seeing something about region locked KS wheels during that initial phase.

That said, IMO this is a problem for your seller, not you. They should be issuing a refund to you asap.

[Rywokast]

19 minutes ago, Vulkov said:

Hey mate, it was brand new. He was waiting for it for months before he got impatient and got another wheel and this one was surplus to him. I bought it since he also had a body armour included and it was a full package for 400 euro less than buying from a EU retailer. It was to save money but at the same time I had no idea that the wheel can be perma-locked just because it was purchased from aliexpress. 

it's not... it could be a few things but the wheel isn't perma locked... is it brand new like you were the one to open the box? the servers are sometimes down so for activation you may have to wait a few hours.. did you use the newest app? https://www.kingsong.com/list-30.html if that isn't working try euc world from the play store or darknessbot for iPhones.. I have bought multiple KS wheels from aliexpress as have many others here, though it's not common to do so it's not really an issue...

[DjPanJan]

You try fake GPS and VPN? How can EUC know where is if you competly fake you phone and internet provider. If is possible mock location in pokemon go and this game is protected by google play protect and pay protect. I think euc no have internal gps. Mabee you can just buy mainboard(eu or international version) and switch. Becaule locked is mainboard not whole EUC.  

[Vulkov]

10 minutes ago, Planemo said:

Ah right I see. Is he a ‘mate’? If yes, I definitely couldn't keep your money personally, even if I never got a cent back myself.

If no, was it via Ebay or similar?

I dunno, either way I wouldn’t really see it as my problem (as a buyer) if there was no mention by the seller that it was locked/non functional.

I have deliberately kept away from buying new KS wheels (if not purchased from a dealer in the UK) for exactly the problem you have had. I do feel for your seller (not you so much because I think you should get all your money back immediately) and I do get what you are saying about locking maybe not being common knowledge but by the same token I wouldn’t spend 1000’s of pounds on something from China that I had no idea about. I was reading up on this forum a fair while before I bought my first wheel, and I seem to remember seeing something about region locked KS wheels during that initial phase.

That said, IMO this is a problem for your seller, not you. They should be issuing a refund to you asap.

Yea, well he said he will refund me when he receives it back so there's that. He is willing to help out since he had no idea about it in the first place. He just unboxed it to take pictures and see if it turns on but did not try to unlock it with any app.

The money lost is for attention really so people are attracted and see this problem so we increase the chances for new people to see this before getting a go at it. I really read a lot about the wheel believe it or not before I decided on it. Definitely did not reach their official facebook statements or anything but I did research quite a bit about it albeit mainly on youtube. General consensus on 16x is that it's pretty good and pretty solid overall so I was stocked to try it out and I bought it. After realising this might be a big issue I researched and I saw several posts saying that NO WORRIES GUYS YOU CAN JUST UNLOCK WITH THIS OTHER APP. Well that didn't work for me so even if I did see a post saying that they lock wheels bought in China I would have thought I can unlock it with EUC world instead.

 

16 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

it's not... it could be a few things but the wheel isn't perma locked... is it brand new like you were the one to open the box? the servers are sometimes down so for activation you may have to wait a few hours.. did you use the newest app? https://www.kingsong.com/list-30.html if that isn't working try euc world from the play store or darknessbot for iPhones.. I have bought multiple KS wheels from aliexpress as have many others here, though it's not common to do so it's not really an issue...

As you can tell from the conversation I had with Kingsong International it is not their servers. I tried the newest apk. EUC World does not support the newest motherboard from what I read. And yes it doesn't work too.

 

17 minutes ago, DjPanJan said:

You try fake GPS and VPN? How can EUC know where is if you competly fake you phone and internet provider. If is possible mock location in pokemon go and this game is protected by google play protect and pay protect. I think euc no have internal gps. Mabee you can just buy mainboard(eu or international version) and switch. Becaule locked is mainboard not whole EUC.  

I am yet to try that as a last resort. Thank you for the suggestion!

[Wolverine]

I believe that KS16X motherboard is locked. I saw your post on facebook and I am truly sad about this whole story. It is good that you have brought this matter to daylight. I am also looking for euc to buy and luckily, I found this forum. We have a good opportunity to read all the important information about euc-s. There are several threads/posts about KS and locking down devices. You could try and buy brand new original part Europe version from this website:

https://eunicycles.eu/en/spare-parts/214-motherboardcontrol-board-ks16x.html

Edit: Try VPN (Private Internet Access is what I use daily, it costs, I know, but this is one of the best VPN I have ever used), second one is to try fake gps app (android: fake gps location).

Edited August 5, 2020 by Wolverine
VPN and fake GPS

[Meulebeest]

4 hours ago, null said:

I don’t particularly trust them as they build in such “features” but seem to have read them stating they wouldn’t brick wheels. (Previous time this “bug” happened)

edit: For the price they are taking, Ali sellers could very well sell international versions, it’s mostly cheating sales tax that make them cheaper. Eu sellers are already making a good margin AFAIK, Ali even more so as they buy cheaper.

Hey,

I have no full backing on this, but after read more articles / exchanges on the topic, and I am convinced of the following:

While there is a direct sale between manufacturers and bigger resellers (ewheels, ecodrift), as should be in this niche market, margins are reasonable.
Certainly taking into consideration the value these sellers add, there is even a moral obligation to buy from these guys when you see their contribution.

HOWEVER KingSong has opted for another approach on the European market, with distributor and reseller scheme, which brings a huge cost and little to no value to the consumers.

Have a look at the KS S18 in different prices (at this date): Ewheels (1899 USD ~ 1600 EUR), Ecodrift (120000 RUB ~ 1400 EUR) and most likely they paid import taxes (Chinese import), and maybe some additional charges need to be added but still reasonable. Now in Europe the price is ~2250 EUR ...
(So stating it is a tax avoidance scheme that influences prices doesn't cover it, even if it were so).

As I stated in another post, for me that is a big flippin' no-no ...
And I understand there are enthusiast resellers that will state their margin (and goodwill), and I believe em (trapped in the model).

But hey, you seriously may expect some scrutiny on the pricing with these differences, and yes this results in massive parallel import.

 

And so geolocking for maintaining such commercial model > ... loss for all parties.

 

[null]

Very much agreed @Meulebeest , I believe it is mainly Kingsong Europe / High'tems who is maintaining these high prices as western reseller outside their area are more reasonably priced while paying local taxes.

An example is this 18XL sold in Scandinavia for 2050€. For a year and until recently it went for 1900€, Covid and currency fluctuations raised the price.
This includes 25% local tax as well as a healthy margin by European standards.

In the rest of Europe the price hovered around 2500€ until the east European sellers started lowering it.
So for very long the price difference was 600€ while still coming from a western seller paying taxes.

Edited August 5, 2020 by null

[mrelwood]

I have been warning about this also, but not too long ago @Jack King Song clearly said that KS will not lock customers' wheels, even the ones bought from AliExpress.

@Jack King Song, has the company attitude changed (once more), or is this a bug in the server? Please advise.

[Vulkov]

Update* 

I managed to unlock it with an app called SoftTuner Kingsong, I finally saw it come alive. I wrote the serial number as a password and it worked.

10 min later they nuked it directly from China...... I'm sick. It is completely locked and unusable again.

[Chriull]

3 minutes ago, Vulkov said:

Update* 

I managed to unlock it with an app called SoftTuner Kingsong, I finally saw it come alive. I wrote the serial number as a password and it worked.

10 min later they nuked it directly from China...... I'm sick. It is completely locked and unusable again.

Then uninstall the ks app, redo the softtuner thing and go on with euc world?

[Vulkov]

Just now, Chriull said:

Then uninstall the ks app, redo the softtuner thing and go on with euc world?

The Kingsong app is uninstalled long ago. Softtuner got nuked. It worked, activated the wheel and then 10 min later they made it lock again and SoftTuner gives me a message "This wheel has been locked please contact etc". EUC World does not support this motherboard or something... It doesn't work. I'm lost for words. I feel like this is targetted harassment at this point since they saw I activated it and remotely terminated it all over again due to my posts probably..

[Chriull]

21 minutes ago, Vulkov said:

It worked, activated the wheel and then 10 min later they made it lock again and SoftTuner gives me a message "This wheel has been locked please contact etc".

Seems you have 10 minutes to uninstall softtuner app, if it works again to unlock the wheel?

... but then you're without app support...

[Vulkov]

I set it up again with no internet connection and it worked again which means they didn't necessarily target me at all. It was automatic. I even managed to upgrade the firmware to 2.02. It sounds like their servers are incredibly slow to respond ~10mins. Hopefully this gives me a usable wheel. 

[alex5454]

Hi, which wheel is the model? .. have you tried by registering with the official kingsong app by email by entering the country of china if possible? use the data not wifi.

[Vulkov]

1 minute ago, alex5454 said:

Hi, which wheel is the model? .. have you tried by registering with the official kingsong app by email by entering the country of china if possible? use the data not wifi.

16x, I didn't try registering but the Tuner app worked when offline. If I keep it online however it locks it until I delete all the data and cache of the app in about 10 min. Forgive me if I seem incompetent but what difference does it make if I use data as opposed to wifi?

[alex5454]

Usually it works for me with mobile data, it recognizes me that it is registered I bought 16x in September 2019 but I am so afraid lately I only use EUC world ... I am scared for s18 ... now when it arrives I will pray.  kingsong will pay dearly for this .. only gotway in the future. 

kingsong charges the customer while selling to aliexpress sellers and the like.  SHAME

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by alex5454

[.....]

20 hours ago, alex5454 said:

Usually it works for me with mobile data, it recognizes me that it is registered I bought 16x in September 2019 but I am so afraid lately I only use EUC world ... I am scared for s18 ... now when it arrives I will pray.  kingsong will pay dearly for this .. only gotway in the future. 

kingsong charges the customer while selling to aliexpress sellers and the like.  SHAME

 

This is one of the many reasons that KS is quickly becoming a part of my 'no buy' list. I love my wheel, but its total crap like this that makes me not want to ever open the KS app, update anything, or have much faith in this company. I'm buying mine locally for a premium anymore, as this kind of thing makes me realize that we are at their mercy. Makes me proud to know my cars (all of them) are standalone and have none of the new tech on them. The future is coming, it wont be long before EVERY vehicle is linked to a mainframe.