Daniil Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Hi, My TG-T3 EU is not covered by warranty and I cannot find any local (Portland, OR, USA) repair service. So, I am trying to figure out what exactly broke and order the replacement part. When I press the power button on it moves violently (like if someone hits the wheel) for a fraction of a second and then shuts off completely (no reaction to the power switch, no lights on). Then when I connect charger again the pattern repeats (i. e. it reacts to power button for a fraction of a second and dies). I measured the voltage on the battery - it's 65.1 Volts (I charged it until the charger light became green). I don't know why it's 65 volts only, but the battery does not appear empty. Visually the board appears to be ok, no traces of overheating. I would appreciate any suggestions on where the problem might be: 1) Charger+Battery 2) Board 3) Motor 4) Something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restless Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I think it sounds like the Controller Board broke. Since the battery seems to be nearly full charged (67V should be max voltage). Maybe a cold solder point, hard to guess. I would try to get a cheap controller board from china (take a look at the firmware thread, there is a link to a Chinese seller). But no warranty if it helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 This can happen if a hall sensor cable gets loose, I'd try opening it up and look inside to see if there is anything obviously wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Since the wheel runs, once you start it until the BMS cuts off the battery and BMS should be working fine so far (Your battery back can deliver enough current to produce an overcurrent shutoff at the BMS - thats the one cutoff reason, where you have to connect your wheel to the charger to restart it)). So your problem should arise from the controller board or the motor. Things you can try and check for free: - Like tom and Restless already mentioned - look for bad soldier points, bad wires/connections, loose connectors. - start the calibration - there are quite some guides how to do this in this forum. I do no know if maybe the hall sensors could be attached wrongly to the main board? If all of this does not help you have the chance to get it working with a new motherboard - maybe. If you have bad luck and the problem lies in the motor/hall sensors, so you can only throw it away (or use it as spare depot, etc..) and try a new wheel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 14 minutes ago, Chriull said: Since the wheel runs, once you start it until the BMS cuts off the battery and BMS should be working fine so far (Your battery back can deliver enough current to produce an overcurrent shutoff at the BMS - thats the one cutoff reason, where you have to connect your wheel to the charger to restart it)). At least in all the BMS -spec sheets I've seen, the overcurrent / short-circuit protection should release once the load is disconnected, no need to plug in the charger (see for example here: http://www.jiabaida.com/products/diandongzixingche_huabanche_dulunchexilie/201510/38.html ). Over-discharge protection Over-discharge protection voltage Vd1 At discharge off 2.400 2.500 2.600 V Over-discharge protection delay time Td1 / 100 200 300 mS Over-discharge protection release voltage Vd2 / 2.900 3.000 3.100 V Overcurrent restore conditions / / Disconnecting the load Overcurrent protection OC1 protection current value Ioc1 Pack Voltage = 60V 55 60 65 A Overcurrent protection delay time 1 Toc1 Pack Voltage = 60V 50 100 150 mS Discharge overcurrent lift Overcurrent restore conditions / / Disconnecting the load Discharge current Maximum continuous discharge current (split-mouth plate) Ioc - - - Fifteen A Discharge temperature protection Discharge temperature protection temperature ℃ Pack Voltage = 60V 70 75 80 ℃ Discharge temperature release temperature ℃ Pack Voltage = 60 V forty five 55 65 ℃ Short circuit protection Short circuit protection delay time Tshort Pack Voltage = 60 V 100 300 500 uS Short circuit protection and restoration / / Disconnecting the load It's the undervoltage (overdischarge) protection that usually needs the charger to be plugged in, as it won't release until the cell voltage raises above the release-value. Even then it could release by itself, if the voltage dip has been temporary and the cells return to a high enough voltage after a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 1 hour ago, esaj said: At least in all the BMS -spec sheets I've seen, the overcurrent / short-circuit protection should release once the load is disconnected, no need to plug in the charger (see for example here: http://www.jiabaida.com/products/diandongzixingche_huabanche_dulunchexilie/201510/38.html ). Although if you ever do find yourself in that situation where the BMS has triggered because of the short-circuit protection then trying to re-plug the battery to the controller will melt the connector faster than the BMS can re-trigger. I ran into that when I had the problem with my first Firewheel controller board! Doesn't sound like a short is the problem here though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 13 minutes ago, dmethvin said: Although if you ever do find yourself in that situation where the BMS has triggered because of the short-circuit protection then trying to re-plug the battery to the controller will melt the connector faster than the BMS can re-trigger. I ran into that when I had the problem with my first Firewheel controller board! I actually thought that it was caused just by "normal" sparking in your case... on the other hand, sparking due to voltage differences probably wouldn't be enough to melt the connector. Good thing your pack wasn't shunted at that point (no short-circuit/overcurrent protection) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 2 hours ago, esaj said: At least in all the BMS -spec sheets I've seen, the overcurrent / short-circuit protection should release once the load is disconnected, no need to plug in the charger (see for example here: http://www.jiabaida.com/products/diandongzixingche_huabanche_dulunchexilie/201510/38.html ). ... It's the undervoltage (overdischarge) protection that usually needs the charger to be plugged in, as it won't release until the cell voltage raises above the release-value. Even then it could release by itself, if the voltage dip has been temporary and the cells return to a high enough voltage after a while. Yes, if one is on the road disconnecting the load is the easier solution (if one has the necessary tools to come to the battery available). At home its normally easier to plug in the charger... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 6 hours ago, esaj said: I actually thought that it was caused just by "normal" sparking in your case... on the other hand, sparking due to voltage differences probably wouldn't be enough to melt the connector. Good thing your pack wasn't shunted at that point (no short-circuit/overcurrent protection) No, what happened is that the controller board had a dead-short and the BMS had cut out. So I unplugged it and looked around, then when I tried to re-plug the battery it melted off a good deal of the connector like it was an arc welder. Come to think of it, it was! I am waiting for a week of bad weather before I shunt and install the second battery pack, but I'm putting a 30 amp fuse on each pack just for a case like that. If I'm drawing 60 amps for any length of time there's something seriously wrong, or at least about to be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniil Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share Posted November 17, 2015 17 hours ago, Chriull said: Since the wheel runs, once you start it until the BMS cuts off the battery and BMS should be working fine so far (Your battery back can deliver enough current to produce an overcurrent shutoff at the BMS - thats the one cutoff reason, where you have to connect your wheel to the charger to restart it)). So your problem should arise from the controller board or the motor. I did not describe the behavior accurately enough. The wheel does not actually runs. I. e. I don't see the wheel rotating. I have posted a video of what happens: https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=29D728D768F083EC!325&authkey=!AF6spXaLzyKcUw8&ithint=file%2cmp4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 2 hours ago, Daniil said: I did not describe the behavior accurately enough. The wheel does not actually runs. I. e. I don't see the wheel rotating. I have posted a video of what happens: https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=29D728D768F083EC!325&authkey=!AF6spXaLzyKcUw8&ithint=file%2cmp4 That look and sounds unfortionately quite obvious. The wheel starts up, tries to turn and then iron bangs on iron -> seems like the motor is stuck. Beeing stuck the motor draws the maximum possible current and the BMS cuts off... So you can just look if you find something that hinders the motor from revolving - maybe there is some kind of transport protection in the motor, that was not removed? Or something inside the motor is loose and blocking... Can you turn the wheel when its turned off - or is it blocked all the time? ...anyway - you do not need to order a new mainboard.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniil Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share Posted November 17, 2015 10 minutes ago, Chriull said: Can you turn the wheel when its turned off - or is it blocked all the time? Yes. I think the sound comes from plastic (I removed all the screws when I tried to disassemble it). When the screws were in place the sound was less loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 36 minutes ago, Daniil said: Yes. I think the sound comes from plastic (I removed all the screws when I tried to disassemble it). When the screws were in place the sound was less loud. There was an or in rhe question - yes is not a valid answer ?. in the video it definitely sounds like iron on iron. but in any case you have to look and try, if you can fix whatever us blocking the wheel... i assume the mainboard cannot produce that banging sound - it could just block the wheel and cut off.... Edit: Or maybe the mainboard could - if the bearing has some clearance and therefore produces the bang sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniil Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share Posted November 17, 2015 1 hour ago, Chriull said: There was an or in rhe question - yes is not a valid answer ?. Oh,I am sorry . Yes, I can turn the wheel. It is not blocked. I feel some small resistance when I turn the wheel - but I believe it comes from magnets in the engine. Definitely no metal scratching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniil Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 I have disassembled EU to three pieces : motor+wheel, board and battery. The wheel now turns absolutely freely but the problem is still there. I wonder if there is a way to diagnose the motor. I found that there are 3 thick wires (2 green, 1 yellow) coming out of the motor - I believe these thick wires connect to coils. There are also thin 5 wires coming out of the motor - I don't know what they are for, my guess would be they are rotor position sensors. I measured the resistance between these thick wires and it was 1.5 Ohms (between any 2). Is this normal? I would greatly appreciate any further suggestions on how I can figure out which part to blame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniil Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 Surprisingly, it seems to be difficult to find replacement parts (main board) for my EU. It is TG-T3 model. I wonder if is is by any chance compatible with any other brand ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMo Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 11 hours ago, Daniil said: Surprisingly, it seems to be difficult to find replacement parts (main board) for my EU. It is TG-T3 model. I wonder if is is by any chance compatible with any other brand ? You can check out this mainboard (18A) which is compatible with 350w motors. Have a chat with the seller, he is very helpful. http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Factory-price-electric-self-balancing-unicycle-mainboard-one-wheel-scooter-PCBA-controller-DIY-balancing-car-accessories/513039_2034551122.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 13 hours ago, Daniil said: Surprisingly, it seems to be difficult to find replacement parts (main board) for my EU. It is TG-T3 model. I wonder if is is by any chance compatible with any other brand ? 2 hours ago, SlowMo said: You can check out this mainboard (18A) which is compatible with 350w motors. Have a chat with the seller, he is very helpful. http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Factory-price-electric-self-balancing-unicycle-mainboard-one-wheel-scooter-PCBA-controller-DIY-balancing-car-accessories/513039_2034551122.html That listing is sold out. If you're looking for a 350w motor controller I've purchased both of these: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-quanlity-Controller-for-self-balance-unicycle-60V-350W-controller-for-self-balance-unicycle-with-Free/32396769884.html http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Electric-wheel-control-board-Electric-Scooter-parts-Self-Balancing-Unicycle-Electric-Scooter-Bicycle-Parts-Unicycle-PCB/32444703912.html I think (1) has a better build quality, but it comes with no wires so I had to solder these heads onto the ends of the 3 control wires so they could clip onto the 3 'teeth' on the board, it was easy enough. I used the wires from the old controller for the rest, they all fit! The software is very soft, it's quite easy to overlean and fall forward if you accelerate too fast but it seems to make turning and moving slow much easier. I've just received (2) today and not installed it, but it came with all the cables but the board somehow looks slightly cheaper. I can write a report once I've fit it in my second EUC soon. My other hobbies include breaking my EUC controllers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMo Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 At least I'm lucky with my generic X3 clone which still performs well and is a very good training wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisinbama Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 All these posts about replacing circuit boards and controllers and whatnot...it's very daunting. I do not want to have to do this. I doubt there is another solution to my problem tho. Dammit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniil Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 Thanks everyone for the links. It's been extremely helpful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMo Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 It should be a cool project and hope it would work well for you. There are varying feedbacks. Some are good and some say it doesn't work for them. I remember the days when the 286, 386, 486 and Pentium PC's were in trend where I used to assemble my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisinbama Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I have an update on my situation. Banggood is sending me a replacement controller board. Hopefully that will solve the problem. Only by the time I finally get it I'll probably have to start all over again in my training. I'll have forgotten how to ride the damn thing! LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I had not ridden a Unicycle since I was a teenager. I'm now 49. It took about 5 mins for it to come back to me when I jumped on my TG F3 for the first time. I think you'll be fine. The fine turning control will take a little while, but just getting on and riding a trail should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisinbama Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Finally! My new control board has arrived from Banggood. Hopefully this will be as easy as it looks. I'm concerned about removing the old one tho..they have a lot of "goop" on the different connectors, I guess to ensure they are held in there, but I don't want to break anything taking them off. Do I need to do something special to get the old ones out with that stuff on there? I feel like if I just pry them out I'll ruin something. But they are definitely not just coming out. Also, those blue, yellow and green ones are in there with little two-prong wire connectors...and they don't just come up. Are those soldered in there, or should I be able to just pull those out? Here are images of the new board next to the old one as it's connected. Hope my images aren't too dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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