1000Watt Solowheel vs 1500Watt Solowheel

[MvM]

Recently I had the change to try the older Solowheel model with the 1000 Watt motor.

My 1500 Watt Solowheel suddenly stopped working. It would not switch on anymore and when you  turned the wheel, you could clearly feel 'steps' while turning.

I contacted the importer where I bougth the Solowheel. The next day, my Solowheel was picked up at work and I was given a Solowheel for the interim period. This was the older 1000W model, so I had the chance to compare both models.

The first thing I noticed was that the 1000W SW (SW1) was much 'stiffer' in feel than my own model (SW2). It simply did not feel as agile or supple as the 1500 Watt model.

This was especially noticable when making tight turns. When doing sharp turns, I had these tilt-back moments with the SW1, giving you a 'I'm falling backwards'-moment that we probably all have known from time to time.

This was also very apparant when going upwards on a ramp near my home where I have to zig-zag my way upwards.

 

When going full-speed, the SW1 felt just a bit slower than the SW2 and sometimes felt a bit wobbly when the road wasn't completely smooth. It felt as if it had more trouble compensating for minor speed differences than the SW2.

Positivily, when jumping from the sidewalk or other small ramps, the turn-over feel and movement of the SW1 was less, so that was something that felt easier than with the SW2.

Riding up and down ramps was pretty much the same as with the SW2.

I have been told that the 'stiffer ' feel is mainly caused by the reaction delay in the software. Perhaps the stronger motor can allow more movementi in the wheel because it has more power to compensate.T

The result is that the SW1 moves less back and forth. It also makes it harder to turn.
In many ways, the SW1 felt like the several Airwheel models that I have tried. I have no experience with other EU's so far.

Just last week, I got my SW2 model back and that feels much smoother and nicer to ride.
Often, I like to ride around town, zig-zagging my way among pedestrians. That means making quick turns and also constantly adjusting your speed. With the more powerful 1500 Watt model, this is simpy a joy to do. The SW2 really feels like an extension of your legs.

I never felt the same way with the SW1 even after about 100 Km.
So, in comparision, I definately feel the 1500Watt model is a big improvement over the 1000 Watt Solowheel.

 

PS: On my SW2, the entire motor and circuit was replaced. I have often let other people try the Solowheel when they ask me about it, and, consequently, it has falled down lots of times.
Apparantly a cooling block had become loose, overheating the electronics.

[John Eucist]

MvM thanks for your write up on the differences between the 1,000W and 1,500W solowheel.  It seems that there's a vast improvement in the "SW2".  The "stiffness" I assume, as you also mentioned, is the latency before the unit reacts to your forward and backwards lean.  For example on my Gotways I can adjust that variable with the Gotway app.  It has three settings.  I actually prefer the stiffest setting most of the time because I like the quicker reaction time.

As for the tight turns and "tilting backwards" I have never experienced.  I have, however, experienced my Gotway 14 inch tilting FORWARD when I slow down to take a tight turn.  It was very annoying.  However, after doing a "horizontal calibration" (also done via the Gotway app) that problem went away.  I'm actually unsure why it fixed it because the horizontal alignment felt fine when cruising.  It was only during a turn that it felt "wrong".

 

As for your detached cooling block, I guess next time your Solowheel takes a heavy tumble you should lift it up rotate it around and shake to see if anything is loose. 

[Sam Clegg]

Very interesting report MvM!

 

My guess is that most of the difference you noticed was simply the firmware and has very little to do with wattage.  My understanding is that originally SW has "stiff/firm" firmware, but on later models they replaced it the the "soft/smoothed" firmware.   Very recently I think they switched again, perhaps to something between the two.

 

I believe that both you and I have spent the last 6 months riding the "soft" firmware and have a gotten used to it.  Indeed I love the feeling of carving on my wheel.   However, the consensus (on the forums anyway) seems to be that for advanced users, the stiffer the firmware the better.  For this reason my SW is away for re-programming now with the latest from Inventist.   I will let you know when it arrives back how I get on.  I really hope I don't react like you and dislike the stiffer firmware (I would hate to have to send it back again).

 

Interestingly in mean time while I'm waiting for my SW I've been tentatively trying my new GW10 and my friend's new GW14.  I say tentatively because I'm still recovering from a fractured tibia so I'm taking it very easy for a few more weeks.   I will post full reviews of both of these other wheels once I get more time to ride them but my first impression is that neither of them have the same great handling when slaloming down the street.  I love the GW10 in general for its maneuverability... its really fun, but I've not managed to get that great "skiing in powder" feeling on either of them.   I've also yet to try the different moded on the GW14 so I'll without judgement there until I do.

[John Eucist]

gw18 for "skiing in powder"

[MvM]

My guess is that most of the difference you noticed was simply the firmware and has very little to do with wattage.  My understanding is that originally SW has "stiff/firm" firmware, but on later models they replaced it the the "soft/smoothed" firmware.   Very recently I think they switched again, perhaps to something between the two.

 

I believe that both you and I have spent the last 6 months riding the "soft" firmware and have a gotten used to it.  Indeed I love the feeling of carving on my wheel.   However, the consensus (on the forums anyway) seems to be that for advanced users, the stiffer the firmware the better.  For this reason my SW is away for re-programming now with the latest from Inventist.   I will let you know when it arrives back how I get on.  I really hope I don't react like you and dislike the stiffer firmware (I would hate to have to send it back again).

 

Interestingly in mean time while I'm waiting for my SW I've been tentatively trying my new GW10 and my friend's new GW14.  I say tentatively because I'm still recovering from a fractured tibia so I'm taking it very easy for a few more weeks.   I will post full reviews of both of these other wheels once I get more time to ride them but my first impression is that neither of them have the same great handling when slaloming down the street.  I love the GW10 in general for its maneuverability... its really fun, but I've not managed to get that great "skiing in powder" feeling on either of them.   I've also yet to try the different moded on the GW14 so I'll without judgement there until I do.

 

Thanks for the reply.

And YES, I have been told the difference in feel is mostly from the software.

And actually, i don't see how 'advanced' users would benefit if the EU would be very 'stiff'.

 

I like you analogy with skeeing and yes, slalomming with the Solowheel through the other traffice in the street is absolutely great with the 'soft' Solowheel.

I don't see how a stiffer EU would improve on that feeling or on that turnability. Even with this soft model, I don't have any problems riding around on rough or uneven surfaces and this morning, I had to ride through the snow.

In my opinion, it is specifically this smooth ride that makes the Solowheel such a joy to ride. Perhaps I am used to it, but I don't really see the advantage in a stiff ride except when you might be making high (and risky) jumps all the time.

As for wattage, I think that the increase in Wattage of the motor (more power) makes it possible for an EU to behave more softly. The more movement an EU will have, the more power (torque) it would need to keep the rider upright. I think that if you would have a low-powered model like, for example, many of the Airwheel models, the EU would simply be unable to right itself after it would have tilted forward to the same agree the Solowheel could. You would simply fall over.

 

BTW: You didn't break your tibia from a EU fall did you?

[John Eucist]

I don't see how a stiffer EU would improve on that feeling or on that turnability. Even with this soft model, I don't have any problems riding around on rough or uneven surfaces and this morning, I had to ride through the snow.

In my opinion, it is specifically this smooth ride that makes the Solowheel such a joy to ride. Perhaps I am used to it, but I don't really see the advantage in a stiff ride except when you might be making high (and risky) jumps all the time.

 

I think the GW18 necessitates a stiffer mode due to the "lever effect" (that John Chew keeps talking about) with larger diameter wheels.  (EDIT: John Chew said this is irrelevant, maybe he can explain.  But GQS says it made a big difference to him but perhaps nothing to do with the "lever effect")

I think, on the contrary, if you do "jumps all the time" you actually need it to be on soft mode.  Otherwise the wheel will too quickly change speed in mid-air and wreak havoc.  A prime example of this are the geared Rockwheels which are extremely super stiff.  It's near impossible to jump up curbs with them.

[John Chew]

*GRIN* You're quite right, arbee ... I DO say the "stiffness" of the wheel is irrelevant regarding the "lever effect" or "torque reaction problem" of large diameter wheels. Please allow me to explain why.

 

When you lean forward, you "ask the wheel for more power". That power comes in the form of "torque" (twisting force) applied to the wheel in a FORWARD DIRECTION. Action and reaction are, however, equal and opposite - Newton's third law. There is therefore an "equal and opposite" BACKWARDS torque applied to the casing of the wheel, and this RESISTS YOUR LEAN. It is literally "lifting your toes back up, and tilting you back again".

The problem with LARGE diameter wheels is that they require more torque to drive - and more torque applied to the wheel means there's more "equal and opposite" torque applied to the casing. If you happen to be in a situation where the torque reaction happens to match the "maximum amount of lean" you are capable of - then you simply cannot "ask the wheel for more power". Even if the motor is technically capable of giving you a lot more, you simply cannot ask for it. YOUR ABILITY TO LEAN limits the power of the wheel, not actual limitations of the motor/battery/etc in the wheel.

 

Now why does "hardness" or "softness" of the wheel not affect this?

 

Well, it's because if you "lean forwards" with a certain effort you are applying a certain "forward torque" to the peddles of the wheel. Whether that wheel is "hard" or "soft" doesn't change how much force you are applying by a particular "lean" - all it changes is how much the peddles move UNDER that force. The "hardness" or "softness" of the wheel does nothing but change how far the peddles move as you lean - the actual TORQUE FORCES are the same. And because the TORQUE FORCES remain the same, it's still the same amount of "equal and opposite" TORQUE REACTION that will cancel it out.

 

So if you're suffering from "lever effect" or "torque reaction" problems, you will suffer from them WHATEVER the "hardness" or "softness" of your wheel. It just might be that with a soft wheel you reach that limit with your toes pointing 10 degrees downwards, but on a hard wheel you reach EXACTLY THE SAME limit with your toes pointing 5 degrees down.

 

The only difference, regarding "lever effect" or "torque reaction" problems, will be a few degrees difference in the angle of your feet at the time.

 

Of course "soft" and "hard" wheels feel very different (and handle very different) in OTHER ways - but as far as the "torque reaction" problem limiting ultimate power ... no. No difference at all.

[Sam Clegg]

Thanks for the reply.

And YES, I have been told the difference in feel is mostly from the software.

And actually, i don't see how 'advanced' users would benefit if the EU would be very 'stiff'.

 

Well for one thing "stiff/hard" wheels can make it easier to do certain things like idling or changing directions very quickly.  Having said that I think it should be possible to design firmware that hard when you need it to me and soft when you don't.   I'm hoping that is what the latest SW firmware will feel like.  We shall see.

[MvM]

Well for one thing "stiff/hard" wheels can make it easier to do certain things like idling or changing directions very quickly.  Having said that I think it should be possible to design firmware that hard when you need it to me and soft when you don't.   I'm hoping that is what the latest SW firmware will feel like.  We shall see.

 

Actually, I think it is the SOFT wheels which allow lots of forward & backward motion that are easier to turn than the HARD wheels.

At least, this is how I felt with my own soft Solowheel against the 1000 Watt and much stiffer model.

 

With my own Solowheel I can really 'glide' through the traffice, weaving around pedestrians without hardly any effort.

I never felt like that with the stiffer model.

 

Problem is, to be really sure, I should try this with a hard & soft setting on both the 1500 Watt and 1000 Watt models (which i can't).

Then you would know if it is just the software, the motor or both.

[GQS]

You have the option of asking for the stiffer firmware on the 1500w model the next time you have it in for service.  I have the 1000w and I like it, but what you don't notice on the SW is the pendulum swinging motion that never occurs on wheels that do not user the tilt-back feature.  Now that I have several options, I find myself riding the SW less and less, mainly due to the smaller 130wh battery compared to my other wheels.

[Sam Clegg]

I just got my 1014 model SW (I assuming its is 1500W) back from Inventist where is was re-programmed with the stiffer firmware.   I have to say that my initial impression is not great, but I can imagine that is simple because I was used to the softer programming.

 

MwM, I had some experiences very similar to yours which makes me even more sure that these issues are 100% firmware related and nothing to do with motor voltage.

 

Here are my initial impression of the new firmware after 1 hour riding:

 

1) The stiffness is noticeable and I don't feel my toes drop when I initially accelerate.  I'm not sure I prefer this, but its the primary definition of "stiff" firmware.

2) I can idle more easily.  This is certainly a plus.

3) The really nice side to side swinging feeling is not there so much as I carve down the road.  Its hard to explain but with the soft firmware one can bend and extent ones legs going into and out of the turns in a way that feels very natural, dynamic and fun, like carving through powder.

4) There are moments when I notice the software adjusting the pedal angle unexpectedly.   This is quite disconcerting.   I also had the feeling, as MvM did, that I might fall backwards a couple of times.

 

It could be that all of these negatives will go away once I get used to the new firmware, but my current assessment is that for certain types of riding the old soft firmware has advantages.  I'll update this thread in a few weeks when I've done more riding. 

 

GQS, did you have ever have the soft firmware on your SW,  do these experiences match yours? 

[MvM]

Hi Sam,

 

Thanks for your input. Nice to see some one who has the same experience.

For me, after more than two weeks of riding the SW with the stiff software, I still did not like it as much as the softer feel.

 

It is like you said, with the soft settings, it feels easy and very natural to 'carve up' the road, even if it is sometimes not very flat.

 

Keep us posted.

[MarkoMarjamaa]

Okay Thank you Sam, Now i can try it again Solowheel Tricks Youtube 

 

​Excuse me but what are you doing? You are posting Youtube videos everywhere.

Is this your video? Have you asked permission from the original author?

 

[Sam Clegg]

You can't post (actually this is bedimming/linking) youtube videos .. they are already public.  no need to ask permission to do that.   If they author didn't want them public they would restrict access via youtube.   Having said that I'm not totally sure how they relevant here

[MarkoMarjamaa]

You can't post (actually this is bedimming/linking) youtube videos .. they are already public.  no need to ask permission to do that.   If they author didn't want them public they would restrict access via youtube.   Having said that I'm not totally sure how they relevant here

​The video has standard Youtube license, not Creative Commons

 

The standard YouTube licence is detailed in the Terms of Service, but basically you grant YouTube to broadcast your video on YouTube. Apart from that, you retain all copyright.

danifriman did not link the original author's video. Instead he has downloaded the video and uploaded it as new one to his own channel. And is collecting advertising money.

[John Eucist]

 

​The video has standard Youtube license, not Creative Commons

 

danifriman did not link the original author's video. Instead he has downloaded the video and uploaded it as new one to his own channel. And is collecting advertising money.

​danifriman has been banned and his posts deleted.  Thanks @MarkoMarjamaa