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OliverH

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OliverH last won the day on May 11 2016

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  1. A quick overview on possibilities; There're motors available with dual stator so one stator needs to be driven from each motor driver. 6 phase motor with 2x 3 phases double layer winding with 2x 3 phases (shouldn't work properly) In general will give us the new models with tubeless tires and wider tires/ rims more possibilities to create redundant concepts. Motor, motor driver, control board, Gyro, battery - all can be build redundant.
  2. In Europe we're excluded from type approval anyway (if you read the scope of the european type approval regulation). That's why we're handled by product saftey law and Machinery Directive/ Safety of machinery. There is/ are manufacturer(s) care about us. But manufacturers big today and not having a PLEV certified device will not participate from scale in sales and will loose sales numbers. And depending if they can compensate with other non European markets they can keep on the production level of today. But the question is how low can be the sales to survive? PLEV is a (self) certification without type approval and inteded without licence/ insurance plate (covered by your private insurance against all damages like today for your bike)
  3. To make it more clear. There’re laws in Europe which are harmonised and than we’ve laws which are implemented on a national base. If nothing is specified on European layer countries can implement national laws (different to other national laws)
  4. A car is not a self balancing vehicle and cars are type approved and based on ISO 26262 (Safety for autonotive). Pedestrian mode is a request from France gov. Need to be clarified how to implement it.E.g. In Germany/ Switzerland it will have no use as we’re not allowed to ride on pavement/ sidewalks (lobby of walkers restrict it). This will be implemented in hardware and be part of the user manual. As I was with my EUC in Paris on my way to Brussels (gare du Lyon (TGV) to gare Nord (Thalys)) I tell you it’s a good point to restrict it in France.
  5. If we like to ride legal on public road we can use the route of PLEV. All EUC not in scope of PLEV are sport vehicle and not legal on public road. But all products sold in Europe must comply to machine directive (2006/42/EC). But as of today there will be possibilities to import them (pseudo EC labels covering parts of EMC) or at least for some time.
  6. Why do you think regulation is that bad? We could wait for national regulations. Each different to each other. Or we can do it the EC style: harmonised. I like to take my EUC to France, Germany, Sweden , Spain or what ever country and ride my EUC - without problems and just ride it.
  7. Situation is different in Europe. European/ national product safety laws are very clear. Regulation gives access to strong markets where EUC riders are not allowed because no regulation available (e.g. Germany and even small Switzerland (the public transportation country)). Looking on the statistics from Eco Drift shows one part of the dilemma: Quality issues at it's best. As a PLEV device manufacturer you need very fast to act to prevent withdrawn of your decleration of conformity/ or get hit with a sales ban up to the moment you can with trust show off you've fixed the issue. The rising speed with the new models run in the problem that the "new transportation devices" are on focus of government decision. The party in Europe could be over in some time without regulation. We can take PLEV or we stand by and see EUCs are banned on market after market.
  8. You're welcome to bring up a solution. But if you talk about speeds above 25 km/h it will be difficult to do it. I suppose it will be a heavy challenge. Our EUCs are special and not easy to handle in perspective of safety concerns. The faster the higher the performance level (ISO 13849). PLEV likes to have 25 km/h, Germany, Switzerland, Norway 20 km/h, Belgium 18 km/h. France requests additionally a pedestrian mode (6 km/h) if on pedestrian area (pavement,..).
  9. The sales are so low because of no harmonization of the markets and no legal base to use them. There's a company developing PLEVs (incl. EUCs) to be conform to PLEV. Another German company is developing an eKickboardscooter developed in Europe. If there's a business case company use the attraction of the market. What happens if a current strong market in Europe is enforced by police like in Germany because of missing regulation and incidents happens more and more? What happens to the low volume of our current brands? How much lower can they the production and survive? Where is there break even. Regulation is the solution to get in other sales dimensions.
  10. To give some light on this manner: I'm not going deep in detail. We had just another PLEV meeting of the international group in Brussels. Next follow up in December. PLEV fills the gap of the excluded devices in the EC 2, 3 and 4 wheel regulation of type approval regulation. It's based on European/ national product safety law => declaration of conformity to the machine directive (2006/42/EC). The machine directive points to the harmonized standards: Type A standard: ISO 12100 Safety of machinery Type B standards: e.g 13849-1 Safety of machinery - control systems, and some others Type C standard EN17128 Personal light electric vehicle (currently on a prEN level) The EN17128 will be based on the underlying Type A & B standards and is a product specific standard. With this a PLEV is not a type approved vehicle by notified body (TUEV,..) it's based on a self certification after declaration of conformity is proven. It's a full CE label in the end. Today's CE labels are not declaration of conformity regarding machine directive as they deal only with sub parts (emission/ noise). PLEV will rise the level products needs to meet and there will be companies not meeting the requirement. I try to tell this story some Chinese manufacturers since more than 1 year that they get prepared. It's like talking against a wall. Keep in mind that current manufacturer create amazing products for the level of maturity they have. In many cases this will be not enough for the next step. But I'm sure there will be at least one manufacturer to deliver a range of PLEVs. To sell PLEVs in Europe and use them legal on street from 2019 up the manufacturer need to show PLEV conformity/ declaration of conformity. Following this route manufacturers can participate from the potential of the European market and enter mass production.
  11. Is the mosfet Problem a reliability issue, wrong parameters or just overheating?
  12. GOTWAY Tesla: Double Redundancy [VIDEO]

    Not sure if I come with the EUC. Need to look for a proper train connection without to much changing trains. But it would be nice to meet some EUC freaks. Regarding the right level of requirements. The bar will be high. European Union defined Safety of machinery (2006/42/EC) as the standard for product safety laws which should be implemented in national law in Belgium. If we enter next layer up to PLEV (EN 17128) we talk about harmonised standards: Type A: ISO 12100 Safety of Machinery Type B1: ISO 13489-1 and -2 Safety-related parts of control system (risk analysis, defining performance level) Type B1: IEC 62061 Safety of machinery: Functional safety of electrical, electronic and programmable electronic control systems (riskanykis part only (optional)) Typ C: PLEV (EN 17128) which is in the work right now. We need to play with the sentence limiting risk to keep the requirements on an acceptable level. But the electronic control system will need SIL or PL ratings (HW/ SW). The current electronics will not get this ratings.
  13. GOTWAY Tesla: Double Redundancy [VIDEO]

    Not sure what you like to show with your collection of comments. Let's pick on e sentence: Sentence regarding current design/ architecture is true (no inherent safety design, look at pictures of accidents and reports of problems inside the forum here). Have you read the Safety of machinery (2006/42/ EC, and the corresponding harmonised standards (Typ A (e.g. ISO 12100) and B (e.g. ISO 13849-1/-2) standards)? The PLEV will be a Typ C standard and should reflect and should go more specific in detail to the upper standards/ regulations. The problem is currently each party looks itself for their own products. Segway send an EMC specialist from the US in the last meeting in Paris to discuss on the this matter last year in Paris. The CEN consultant had advised to use a strong requirement. PLEV is lead by CEN, the main job/ coordination is done by AFNOR in france. The international board is set up with Honda, Toyota, Micro, Decathlon, .. Than you've national boards like in Germany with DIN which have a mirror board. The target of the members is to lower the requirements as much as possible and not follow the target of the standard. Only Norway and Germany rejected the prEN 17128. With this strategy prEN 17128 or fprEN 17128 (next step) will be rejected again. The reviews are down now also by lobbyists and gov departments and PLEV needs some "tweaking" to fit requirements of a harmonized standard. We're in the phase people getting aware that the EUCs have no valid CE which is necessary for the import and sales in the European Union. Most EUCs are supplied with a CE sticker by today. If you read the "certification" it deals with EMC. It doensn't deal with inherent safety, there's no risk analysis, of the product itself no fatigue tests and so on. Only a product went through the whole process is allowed to get the CE sticker/ sign beside the product/ company name (there's a different of a machinery vs partly completed machinery inside safety of machinery (2006/42/EC)). Customs can reject/ destroy EUCs or ask for missing documentation/ certification (not available) by today. I'm just sitting in front of a drawing showing what will be in scope for certification and from what regulation they're derived from. There're facts we can't push away. We'll reach the target, no question. But we need a manufacturer to follow this guidelines, can do the job on the required level and use parts with the right certification, can supply the necessary documentation and has a quality management system in place.
  14. GOTWAY Tesla: Double Redundancy [VIDEO]

    Self balanced: Segway and me. Most stuff is for eTrottis/ eKickscooter. I think you saw the prEN 17128 and not the draft before.
  15. GOTWAY Tesla: Double Redundancy [VIDEO]

    We had a really great discussion last Sep in Paris and added quite a lot stuff. In the prEN 17128 all this content disappeared. We’ll have a nice discussion in one and a half week in Brussels on the CEN meeting.
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